Monday, December 12, 2005

Trouble in Paradise?

As we watch the controversy unfold over Montgomery County's sex-education curriculum, one thing becomes obvious: the religious right is monolithic. Somehow, through their newsletters and sermons, their TV evangelists and their radio preachers and talk-show hosts, they get the word around, and all of a sudden all of them are saying the exact same thing. It's eerie.

But the Denver Post is suggesting today that there may be a storm developing in the upper hypocritosphere over the topic of gay marriage.
What was envisioned as a broad coalition coming together to put a constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage on the Colorado ballot next fall is divided over what exactly the measure should say.

According to sources involved in the discussions, the influential Colorado Springs evangelical Christian group Focus on the Family is pressing for a measure that would ban not only gay marriage but also same-sex civil unions or domestic partnerships.

But other potential backers of an amendment - including the state's three Roman Catholic bishops - prefer a narrower, potentially less divisive ballot measure that would simply define marriage as between one man and one woman, sources said.

Another key player, the Rev. Ted Haggard of Colorado Springs, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, said Thursday that he stands with the Catholic position.

He said the institution of marriage deserves constitutional protection and that civil unions are a matter for the state legislature. Push to nix gay nuptials begins: But groups not all on same page

You can see that there should not be disagreement. I mean, it would be a cruel joke if God, who of course does speak directly to these big-shots, said one thing to one guy and something different to the other one. (Which keeps reminding me of a really terrific Randy Newman song)

This Haggard character, by the way, is a force to reckon with. He has a 9,000-member congregation in Colorado Springs, and is the President of the National Association of Evangelicals. So when he sides with the Catholics against somebody like James Dobson, this is a big deal. Course, he's playing it down.
Haggard characterized the debate as a healthy dialogue that is part of consensus building, pointing out that disagreements also arose over the wording of a proposed federal constitutional amendment barring gay marriage before a united front prevailed among conservatives.

"This is normal," Haggard said. "The Catholics and evangelicals agree that marriage is a sacred institution that should be protected. The only discussion is about how far this particular initiative should go."

Even so, the divide poses a challenge to Focus on the Family, which confirmed in February that it was the catalyst for getting the gay marriage amendment discussion started but insisted it would be taking part in a broad coalition, not leading the charge. Officials with the Christian ministry declined to comment Thursday.

It looks to me like the argument is about whether they hate gay people, or really really hate gay people. I mean -- think about the logic that leads you to propose a law that says that some people can't marry the person they love.

And look at them. The "institution of marriage deserves constitutional protection?" Wha? Will somebody please explain to me, exactly what is going to happen to the institution of marriage? Boys and girls will stop falling in love with each other, they won't want to live all their years together and start families and bounce little Junior on their knee? Because two guys got married? Huh?

Listen -- that's crazy. Good ol' heterosexual love will continue to blossom whether Adam and Steve get hitched or not. To pretend that marriage and "the family" are threatened because some small percentage of people fall in love with someone with the same plumbing as theirs is ... it's a hoax.

Anyway, these guys seem to differ on the degree to which they should impose their bizarre values on people who don't want them. That's a start, I guess.


Blogger andrea said...

Oh, good, anarchy in the ranks of those who know it all. I have been married more than 22 years and despite the extensive vacation time we have spent in Vermont and Canada, not to mention the gay friends and relatives we have- we are still married. I also have straight friends who are divorced, who never married and those who have partners- and I am still married. I just don't see how other people's relationships can threaten mine-although if Nick and Jessica can break up- what marriage is safe? Maybe instead of railing against gay marriage, the right wing should stop Hollywood types from marrying.

December 12, 2005 3:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Andrear
Dude once again ware is your proof!!!!!!!!!!! (Get some)!!!!!! You make slanders comments that are with out substance Scott Lively completely end noted his book. Were all his sources also “rabidly anti gay” were the holocaust survivors lying. Are you so paranoid that you would think that some of the most respected publishing companies in the world would all collaborate in a major deception? I will post it again if you like. I sound like what? I don’t even have yahoo.

In the real world the national socialists were a leftist organization though they might be to the right of you, as you seem to have gone completely over the deep end.

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December 12, 2005 8:11 PM  
Blogger Kay2898 said...

anonymous said:Anonymous said...
To Andrear
Dude once again ware is your proof!!!!!!!!!!! (Get some)!!!!!! You make slanders comments that are with out substance Scott Lively completely end noted his book. Were all his sources also “rabidly anti gay” were the holocaust survivors lying. Are you so paranoid that you would think that some of the most respected publishing companies in the world would all collaborate in a major deception? I will post it again if you like. I sound like what? I don’t even have yahoo.

In the real world the national socialists were a leftist organization though they might be to the right of you, as you seem to have gone completely over the deep end.

Your point is exactly what in this rambling post?

December 12, 2005 9:42 PM  
Blogger JimK said...

Anon, the National Socialist Party is the American Nazis. If you want to say that the Nazis are leftists, I suppose you can, but you're on your own with that.

Your list of books demonstrates your own fascination with links between gay people and Nazis, but it doesn't give anyone else any idea what you might be trying to say. Does this have anything at all to do with the curriculum in Montgomery County Public Schools? Are you afraid that the sex-ed class is going to turn students into Nazis? Are you afraid that Nazis are controlling the curriculum? Do you think gay people have Nazi tendencies? I don't see any connection.


December 12, 2005 9:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Quote from: CRCPrecious (Retta Brown) on December 10, 2005, 05:23:41 PM on CRC Message Board

Ask Marilyn in the Parade Magazine of the Post this Sunday
By Marilyn vos Savant

Q-Some psychiatrists say they can help homosexuals become heterosexuals (not just in behavior-true heterosexuals) Do you think it’s possible?

A. I think change is possible, but only for individuals who were never truly gay in the first place and who have a strong motivation to recover their heterosexuality. Judging from the letters I receive, I suspect that some apparently homosexual people are really heterosexuals who are deeply phobic about the opposite sex or have other emotional problems. However, for people who have been gay since birth, no way! and click on “Ask Marilyn” to respond

Retta Brown as CRC Precious wrote in response:

I think:
There have never been “gay” babies so that would mean that all homosexuals were never “truly gay”. : )


This is the person that CRC is fighting so hard to get on new CAC??????????

snow white

December 12, 2005 10:21 PM  
Blogger andrea said...

While this has nothing to do with our program here in MC- Scott Lively is a Holocaust revisionist - he should be ashamed as should you for lying about the those who died at the hands of the Nazis. I doubt that you - anon- know much about the Holocaust from any "source" except from Mr. Lively- he misquotes and takes bits and pieces of others statements out of context. You do not respect those who died and suffered in the Holocaust- you try to use it to justify your own personal hatred of gay people. I don't need to present all of the real sources of information on the Holocaust- you would obviously never read any of them- since your beliefs are so firmly rooted in mistruth and hatred.

December 13, 2005 7:53 AM  
Blogger Kay2898 said...

Noncombatant Deaths in WW II

3,000-9,000 German homosexuals according to Whitman. 9

Whitman, Larry in Insight on the News, vol. 12, no. 19 (20 May 1996): p. 38+.

December 13, 2005 9:49 AM  

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