Tuesday, January 23, 2007

The Stage Is Set for the State of the Union

(CBS) President Bush will deliver his State of the Union address Tuesday night to a nation that's strongly opposed to his plan for increasing troops in Iraq and deeply unhappy with his performance as president, according to a CBS News poll.

Mr. Bush's overall approval rating has fallen to just 28 percent, a new low, while more than twice as many (64 percent) disapprove of the way he's handling his job.

Two-thirds of Americans remain opposed to the president's plan for sending more than 20,000 additional U.S. troops to Iraq — roughly the same number as after Mr. Bush announced the plan. And 72 percent believe he should seek congressional approval for the troop increase.

However, the poll finds more Americans might back the president's plan if they were convinced it would assure U.S. success in Iraq. Poll: Bush Approval Rating At New Low

Personally, I thought he'd never fall into the twenties. I figured there's a core group of people in this country who would stick with him no matter what. It's like those fifteen people who still show up when the CRC puts out the call. But no. They may be slow, but eventually they figure out what's going on.

That last little item, by the way, that's a joke. More people would back the plan "if it would assure success." What kind of question is that? That's like asking, do you think it would rain if the sky turned green? It's so hypothetical, it's just impossible to answer. Everybody knows more troops won't assure success, in fact, nobody even knows what success in Iraq is any more. Replacing Saddam? Destroying the weapons of mass destruction? Introducing a democratically-elected Iraqi government? Defeating al Qaeda? Defending America? Bringing peace to the Middle East? Getting the oil? Avenging 9/11?

Hey, look, we've succeeded already, OK? It's time to bring 'em home.

It will be very interesting watching this frightened failure of a President try to tell our country tonight what a wonderful job he's been doing.

15 Comments:

Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

Jim writes,

in fact, nobody even knows what success in Iraq is any more.

Goodness, nobody else has posted a reply so I'll bite...

"Success in Iraq"? Define success? How about this...first, a government that is able to receive 51% support of the people they claim to govern; second, a government that is able to govern impartially (that is, not be partial to any single group...that is going to be a tall order to fill), and third, a government that has sufficient power to secure their borders and destroy the foreign fighters within their borders (letting the surrounding governments know that foreign nationals within Iraq's borders intent on during Iraq harm will be dealt with severely).

And this would yield a nation strong enough to stand on its own, and US troops would be redeployed.

It will be very interesting watching this frightened failure of a President try to tell our country tonight what a wonderful job he's been doing.

When I read a comment like the one above however I cannot shake the feeling that you, Jim, and your Angry Left comrades really want to see Bush fail so badly that you really have not considered the consequences for United States. I am to the point that I would be relieved to see a Democrat take the White House (even...gasp...Sen. Rodham) because then the Democrats would perhaps sober up and understand that getting elected is half the battle, the other half being governing.

January 23, 2007 4:19 PM  
Blogger JimK said...

Orin, you seem to think I am a Democrat. I am registered with that party, it's true, but I have never campaigned for any candidate, never suggested to anyone that they should vote Democratic, I don't go to their meetings, their rallies, their fund-raisers, whatever it is they do. I don't think most people who know me would even call me a liberal, at least I've only been called that by strangers on the Internet.

Your "angry left conspiracy" theory doesn't hold water, it really just starts to look like you want to throw labels on people so you don't have to deal with what they're actually saying. You did see when somebody today went back and pasted a great number of quotes of you using that phrase. I would think every American would be totally pissed off at what's happened to our country, it has nothing to do with left or right. We should all be red in the face, all the time.

I am opposed to the idea of America becoming a fascist dictatorship, and yes I want to see Bush fail as quickly as he can so we can recover from this disaster.

JimK

January 23, 2007 4:34 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

...and your Angry Left comrades...

Too bad you couldn't use a red colored font for "comrades" huh Orin?

It is a reliable guide that when anyone in an argument name-calls that they surely are on the losing side of an argument.
Orin Ryssman January 23, 2007 7:52 AM

January 23, 2007 5:53 PM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

I am opposed to the idea of America becoming a fascist dictatorship, and yes I want to see Bush fail as quickly as he can so we can recover from this disaster.

...even if the United States loses in Iraq? Sad...

Orin

January 24, 2007 3:07 AM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

Jim writes,

Orin, you seem to think I am a Democrat. I am registered with that party, it's true, but I have never campaigned for any candidate, never suggested to anyone that they should vote Democratic, I don't go to their meetings, their rallies, their fund-raisers, whatever it is they do.

And your point?

No, I guess you don't do any of that, though you do seem to follow the same talking points as those that become unhinged when Bush is the subject...hummmm, "birds of a feather..."

Late last month I was less active here because...well, I had some snow to move out of the way, so I missed your entry of,

Friday, December 29, 2006
Sometimes You Gotta Laugh

with the an AP-AOL poll to see who was considered to be the worst villain of 2006 (really now, 25% consider Bush to be a villain, but only 2% consider North Korean leader Kim Jong II to be one? Ok, I can accept that 25% would consider Bush a villain - goodness, I suspect if you asked any Western European the figure would be considerably higher - BUT ONLY 2% consider Kim Jong II a villain??? ask any North Korean fortunate enough to make it out alive about what it is like to live in a "worker's paradise" for a reality check)

anyhow, this got me to wondering about all the entries Jim has posted for December 2006. I came up with 3 distinct categories,

First, TTF stuff. Second, Political stuff (hey, I am the last person to have any sort of problem with that, but there is undeniably a political orientation angle, slant, bias to such postings). And third, Other stuff - not really TTF or Political.

I counted (in my rather UNscientific way) the blog entries, and this is what I came up with (and yes, "your mileage may vary"),

TTF Stuff = 20 entries
Political Stuff = 16 entries
Other Stuff = 9 entries
(now a warning: some entries bordered two categories in which case I counted them in both, usually happened with the Political and Other category).

I don't think most people who know me would even call me a liberal

How well do they know you? Do they read your blog entries here? This strikes me as a tad disingenuous...

It will be very interesting watching this frightened failure of a President try to tell our country tonight what a wonderful job he's been doing.

I am sorry you feel that way; I know I have not felt that way with either Carter or Clinton (in fact, I was once a subscriber to The American Spectator until I could no longer stand their obsessive/compulsive and venomous attacks on then Pres. Clinton - looking back now I fear those on the Right had a hand in creating the poisonous political climate we all live in...sigh).

Aunt Bea said...

...and your Angry Left comrades...

Too bad you couldn't use a red colored font for "comrades" huh Orin?

Would fellow travelers be a better term?

It is a reliable guide that when anyone in an argument name-calls that they surely are on the losing side of an argument.
Orin Ryssman January 23, 2007 7:52 AM

January 23, 2007 5:53 PM

A simple question: Jim...Aunt Bea...and anyone else who cares to answer this,

Do you wish the President to succeed or fail in Iraq?

(And I will answer that question as well...I wish success to the President in Iraq - though I would feel the same way if that person were Sen. Clinton, on the one hand, or Sen. Brownback on the other)

Come now...not a terribly difflicult question to answer.

And yes, Aunt Bea, I guess my remark regarding "Angry Left Comrades" could be understood to be namecalling. Then again, I have read pretty much the same sort of comments like what Jim wrote at sites like MoveOn.org et al.

"I am opposed to the idea of America becoming a fascist dictatorship, and yes I want to see Bush fail as quickly as he can so we can recover from this disaster."

Again I ask,

Even if that means the US fails as well? (Or is that too "fascistic" a thing to ask?)

January 24, 2007 4:15 AM  
Blogger JimK said...

Orin, America isn't going to "fail," as you put it. Oh, we've failed in Iraq, to use the word "we" very loosely; we failed by thinking we could change people through violence, by thinking we could force proud people to submit to humiliation without rebelling. The President has failed in everything he's done. And America, I suppose, can be said to have failed to the extent that the American people selected this kind of leader. The people were lazy, and thought they could lead the world through brutality and hubris.

But the people have learned something important, and the country is in the process of regaining its balance. I'm not worried about the American people. We wobble, but we don't fall.

JimK

January 24, 2007 6:58 AM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

Jim, the question is this:

Do you wish the President to succeed or fail in Iraq?

your nonanswer notwithstanding. You can either answer the question directly, or you can dance around the question, in which case it will be noted for the record.

January 24, 2007 7:17 AM  
Blogger JimK said...

Orin, if by winning, you mean, do I want the President's forces to beat the Iraqi people so badly that they give up, then, no, I have no desire to see that. I never had anything against the people of Iraq, don't know why the President chose to inflict this punishment on them, and will not feel "victorious" if we, the greatest nation on the planet, are able to make the people of some random little third-world hell-hole cry uncle.

If by winning you mean that the country of Iraq could return to the state it was in before we invaded and occupied, I suppose that would be the best we could hope for. But it's going to take a long, long time for them to build back to where they were, and the beginning of that phase is not yet on the horizon. And now that we're kidnapping diplomats from countries they are trying to establish relationships with, and now that our army is in all-out combat against the army that was supporting the elected government, we are pretty well making sure they will not be self-governing and self-determining in any way.

JimK

January 24, 2007 7:53 AM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

Come to think of it, I have more to add here...

Jim writes,

we failed by thinking we could change people through violence

Oh, really? Goodness, that would come as a surprise to those now peacefully living in Japan (though who would have known that on Dec. 7th, 1941); not only peacefully living with themselves, but with all other nations. And it would come as a surprise also to those in Germany (not to mention those in the City of Dresden, a city that was literally turned into a pile of ashes) as well. No, wait, it would also come as a surprise to those living on the south end of the Korean Pennisula, saved from the totalitarian nightmare of what North Korea has become (want to see something really cool? find a night time satellite picture of the Korean Pennisula...it is easy to see even from space which half is more prosperous).

Just three examples Jim of how the world has been changed thru violence...for the better. But hey, don't take my word for it, just ask those now living in Japan, Germany or South Korea.

January 24, 2007 8:01 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

My wish, Orin, is that the President and his adminstration had listened to ALL American military advisors, not just the polical yes men before going ahead with their misguided plan for Iraq. I wish he had also heeded world opinion expressed by the millions of people who demonstrated the view that this invasion of Iraq was doomed to fail and to become the quagmire that is it now before he launched his blunder into Iraq.

Maybe, just maybe if Bush had the strength of character to admit his failure to take warnings seriously rather than dismiss them out of hand, I'd wish for his success, but he hasn't. What I wish for is all American troops to be out of harm's way which means out of Iraq RIGHT NOW. Bush and his yes men should go clean up the mess they made. They broke it, they should fix it.

Personally I hope Bush carries history's mark as the blundering buffoon that he is who has cost the lives of thousands of innocent Iraqis and well-intentioned American military personnel. And if his X is the true X, I hope he burns in hell for eternity.

January 24, 2007 12:38 PM  
Blogger andrear said...

Orin- do you live in an alternate universe? We have failed in Iraq. Maybe we could have done something differently but we have failed. The Sunni and Shia will continue to fight- and we have destroyed a great deal of Iraq all by ourselves.

The Angry Left- well, Orin- does that apply to the overwhelming majority of people who now say the President's plan for Iraq is wrong. Not by my count but by ever major polling group- except Orin's.

January 24, 2007 1:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

January 24, 2007 9:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

history will speak very well of Bush.
Clinton*
*impeached

January 25, 2007 4:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

History will record these facts:

The Senate Acquits President Clinton

By Peter Baker and Helen Dewar
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, February 13, 1999; Page A1

The United States Senate acquitted William Jefferson Clinton yesterday on charges that he committed perjury and obstruction of justice to hide sexual indiscretions with a onetime White House intern, permitting the 42nd president to complete the remaining 708 days of his term.

After a tumultuous year of scandal that tested the Constitution and tried the nation's patience, neither of the two articles of impeachment brought by the House garnered a simple majority, much less the two-thirds necessary to convict Clinton...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/impeach021399.htm

Polls conducted during the month of February 1999 show between 63% and 69% of Americans expressed approval of Clinton.

Polls taken between October 2006 and January 2007 show between 34% and 38% of Americans expressed approval of Bush.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/popularity.php

January 28, 2007 11:55 AM  
Anonymous Phentermine said...

Nice design of blog.

August 13, 2007 3:38 PM  

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