Wednesday, August 08, 2007

Hey, Huh?

Mark Hoofnagle at the Denialism Blog had it exactly right yesterday:
Democrats, empowered by their victories last November and in response by a nation-wide desire to hold the presidency accountable vote to expand warrantless wiretapping.

Wait, what?


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Actually, the Democrats passed the bill because the President threatened to not let them go on vacation unless they did. He said if they recessed without passing it, he'd use his constitutional powers to call an emergency session of Congress.

Sya what you will about the Democrats but they're always amusing. Remember Monicagate?

August 08, 2007 9:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah I do remember. It showed how low the GOP is prepared to go to smear its competition. Many of us long for the good old days before the stink of this admininstration covered the Earth.

August 08, 2007 9:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We need to appoint another Ken Starr to find and publish every salacious detail of trysts of GOP Rep. Mark Foley, Sen. David Vitter, State Department Director Randall Tobias, and State Rep. Bob Allen.

What's that other Allen, the kleptomaniac Bush aide twice nominated to the 4th U. S. Circuit of Appeals in Richmond, Claude Allen up to these days?

Hey JJ. Do you wonder if Steve Abrams would refer to Claude as "boy"?

August 08, 2007 10:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, legislators are always sleazy. Look at Gerald Studds, Ted Kennedy, Barney Frank, William Jefferson, Al Gore- to affinity and beyond!

Clinton was something else. The President. The guy who was supposed to be the face of America. Acting like some high school kid. Scoring with the girls. Lyin' when caught. Stealing the national china.

It was hilarious! Will it soon be Hillaryous?

August 08, 2007 10:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did Clinton solicit boys or men while touting his bonafides as an upholder of traditional family values? No. Did he follow in the presidential footsteps of Jefferson, FDR, Ike, JFK, etc.? Yep.

Clinton finally came clean about his infidelity, mended his ways, worked for and received his wife's and daughter's forgiveness, and remains more popular than the dudes in the White House these days.

That's probably because nobody died when Clinton lied.

August 08, 2007 1:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Did Clinton solicit boys or men while touting his bonafides as an upholder of traditional family values? No."

Would that be worse than doing so with females? I think so but I'm surprised a TTFer would say so.

Clinton, BTW, always tslked about how strongly he supported the traditional family. He and Hillary were actually seperated until he decided to run for President. They cynically reunited when he began his campaign for the Presidency so they could appear like a traditional family.

"Did he follow in the presidential footsteps of Jefferson, FDR, Ike, JFK, etc.? Yep."

Other than living in the same house, what are other similarities? JFK is way overrated, BTW. He resisted civil rights reforms until his hand was forced, got us into a no-win situation in Vietnam and brought the world to the brink of global destruction in the Cuban Missile Crisis. And that was with less than full term. His reputation is based on a bunch of Ivy League types who he appointed to government and who still return the favor by writing books glorifying him without justification on a regular schedule.

"Clinton finally came clean about his infidelity, mended his ways,"

Oh right, little blue dresses have a way of bringing out the best in people.

"worked for and received his wife's and daughter's forgiveness,"

Yeah, well, Hillary had a lot to gain by sticking with him. She liked living in the White House.

"and remains more popular than the dudes in the White House these days."

That always happens in hindsight. Everyone loves Jimmy Carter now too.

"That's probably because nobody died when Clinton lied."

Don't tell that to anyone in the area of the bombing raids Clinton launched against suspected Bin Laden locations every time he wanted to distract from a new Monica story.

August 08, 2007 3:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

oh, btw, why didn't you guys warn us about this whole global warming thing?

August 08, 2007 3:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Parents and Friends of Ex-gays and Gays (PFOX) is celebrating after settling a lawsuit with an Arlington, Va., school district. The group will be allowed to distribute fliers to middle school students with the message that change is possible for people who are dissatisfied with living homosexually.

The Arlington County Schools had refused to allow PFOX to send home or post the fliers, even though other groups were allowed that privilege, including gay organizations. That’s when the Christian Legal Society (CLS) and Alliance Defense Fund stepped in, prompting the school district to settle.

Timothy Tracey with CLS said PFOX now can get important information into the hands of students.

“I think this is a definite victory for the First Amendment," he said. "It's Arlington County Schools recognizing its obligation to the First Amendment to treat community groups evenhandedly.”

Regina Griggs, executive director of PFOX, said her group will also be allowed to send representatives to talk with students.

“We wanted access and our information made available not only in Arlington, but in numerous school districts where information that is not gay-affirming is rejected," she told Family News in Focus. “People who have unwanted same-sex attractions can overcome them.”

August 08, 2007 10:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks ever so much once again for sharing the latest spin from the lobbying arm of the James Dobson theocracy movement, ranch. It's always good to know what stories the wingnuts are fabricating this week. Regina Griggs should tell her last quote to Ted Haggard.

And what a laugh riot you are jj. Conservatives have long vilified Bill Clinton, who rose to the top in spite of his humble beginnings in a non-traditional family and a broken home. They love to disrespect him because his outspoken mother married four times and because he was raised by stepfather who was an alcoholic gambler who physically abused his mother and half brother. If that's your idea of traditional family values, it explains a lot.

Here, I've got something for both of you.

"When his name showed up on Palfrey's client list, however, Vitter had to fess up – and did, sort of. In a written statement, he admitted having committed "a very serious sin," but he also insisted that was the end of the story. "Several years ago, I asked for and received forgiveness from God and my wife in confession and marriage counseling," he boldly asserted. "Out of respect for my family, I will keep my discussion of the matter there – with God and them."

Wait a minute. That's not what Vitter said about Bill Clinton in the fall of 1998. When Clinton made the identical argument about consulting God and wife, after details of his affair with Monica Lewinsky became public, Vitter – then still a state legislator – condemned Clinton as "morally unfit to govern." If no action were taken against Clinton, Vitter wrote in the New Orleans Times-Picayune, "his leadership will only further drain any sense of values left to our political culture."

By his own standards, then, Vitter should be tossed out of office. Indeed, his offense is worse than Clinton's, because Vitter also broke the law. Last time I checked, prostitution is not only considered immoral, it's illegal. Yes, believe it or not, prostitution's a crime even in New Orleans and Washington, D.C. "

August 09, 2007 7:28 AM  
Blogger BlackTsunami said...

Jolly Ranger, stop lying. This is the what an article (from an objective source) said:

A group that advocates therapy to convert gays has settled a lawsuit with Arlington County schools after officials refused to distribute its fliers to high-school students.

The group now is considering targeting its message to students in middle schools.

Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays, or PFOX, sued school officials earlier this year in federal court, claiming that they improperly blocked their request to send out the fliers.

School officials denied any discrimination. They said all outside groups are barred from distributing fliers at high schools, basically because students don't read them.

A settlement reached last week states that PFOX will have the same access given to other groups and can submit fliers for distribution to middle and elementary-school students if it wishes.

August 09, 2007 8:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jolly Rauncher said: "Regina Griggs, executive director of PFOX, said her group will also be allowed to send representatives to talk with students." Perhaps she will be willing to share with those students her success in getting her own son to "convert" to heterosexuality! Ex-gay? No such thing. What a joke...funny if it weren't so pathetic.
Confirmed non-heteroxexual

August 09, 2007 9:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What other similarities does Clinton share with Jefferson, FDR, Ike, and JFK? Any student of American history would know they all had extramarital affairs while in office and still managed to do great things for this country. Bush appears faithful to Laura, but he's the worst President ever.

You think Clinton became popular in hindsight? Wrong! He remains popular. You must be hoping the passage of time will work to improve Bush's popularity though because he sure needs some help in that department.

We all notice how this White House locks the doors and claims executive privilege every other week. They're hiding all their "blue dresses" that they and their lies have stained with the blood of Pat Tillman and all the dead soldiers who used to live down the block.

In answer to your question "Would that be worse than doing so with females?" No. What's worse is 'touting one's bonafides as an upholder of traditional family values' while cheating on one's spouse.

August 09, 2007 10:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Any student of American history would know they all had extramarital affairs while in office and still managed to do great things for this country. Bush appears faithful to Laura, but he's the worst President ever."

Tell me again about the great things Clinton did. I can't remember any that weren't pushed on him by a Republican Congress.

Bush has presided over a booming economy and stopped an enemy who vowed to strike us from doing so.

August 09, 2007 11:58 AM  
Blogger Robert said...

Joe said:

"I think so". In other words, you think child abuse against boys is worse than child abuse against girls? Did you really mean that? Surely not.

Dear anonymous:

I see you quoted the RR press release about the PFOX suit against Arlington. I've already checked into this, and it's just a pack of deceptions. cf. my posts on the topic over the past few days for more information, or if you'd like, call Linda Erdos at Arlington Public Schools. Lying is sinful, you know.


August 09, 2007 2:01 PM  
Blogger Priya Lynn said...

Joe said "Bush has presided over a booming economy and stopped an enemy who vowed to strike us from doing so".

What a dream world you live in. The american dollar is sagging, Bush has run up a monstrous deficit that will be a drag on the American economy for decades to come, his foreign policies have increased animostity towards the States and the likelihood of attack. The only benefit for him is that when the Democrats take over they'll take the blame for being unable in four years to dig the U.S. out of the hole Bush has put it in.

August 09, 2007 4:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Isn't it interesting how they never seem to mind being accused of lying or hypocrisy? It's as though they have no moral conscience. I've come to the conclusion that they are Children trapped in adult bodies.

John Dean is the author of Conservatives without conscience, an excellent resource for understanding the amoral fantasyland of the religious supremacist mindset.

Here's an excerpt from an article he wrote awhile back interviewing Bob Altemeyer, whose research is prominently featured in his book.:

Q: Why do these authoritarians follow amoral, hypocritical, deceitful liars?

A: Because of one of their great vulnerabilities, which the manipulative dominators exploit. Authoritarian followers have basically copied the ideas of the authorities in their lives. They haven't thought about things to any great degree and then decided what they believe in. To maintain their beliefs in a world of challenging discoveries and conflicting beliefs, they associate as much as possible with others who agree with them. They travel in small circles, getting booster shots of faith from one another. They rely upon social support, rather than evidence or logic, to keep on believing what in many cases they've simply memorized. But this makes them quite vulnerable to manipulators who tell them what they want to hear. Experiments show that they're so glad to find another person who will tell them that they are right, that they don't consider that the newcomer might have ulterior motives. All you have to do to get into their "in-group" is tell them they are right, even if you don't believe a word of it. Since the in-group is made up of followers clinging to each other and looking for a leader, it's pretty easy for an unscrupulous person to take over-- provided he can outmaneuver the other dominators trying the same thing.

The only real questions I see that remain are; to what extent are they born with this drive toward ignorance and projection, and to what extent is it a chosen lifestyle?

August 10, 2007 5:38 AM  
Blogger JimK said...

Emproph, this was a major research question for psychologists after World War II. No one understood why anyone followed Hitler. The result was a great increase in our understanding of conformity (e.g., Asch), obedience to authority (Milgram), etc., and there was a huge book called The Authoritarian Personality (Adorno) that explored these kinds of people themselves. It may be that all people have some tendency to do bad obediently, but to different degrees, and it also depends on the social situation. Remember, in Milgram's studies, a great number of people would have killed that helpless, guiltless guy, just because they were told to.

It was interesting to see John Dean "discover" that literature, and apply it to the current situation.


August 10, 2007 7:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JimK, And yet it's all happening again, even with all that knowledge. It harkens back to the adage; he who forgets his past is doomed to repeat it.

We need to be ever vigilant of our own potentially authoritarian/blindly-obediant mindsets that we're ALL prone to, so as to continually avoid it.

And doing something continually takes a lot of effort. Ergo; The price of liberty (freedom) is eternal vigilance.

A hard sell for the weary. Which seems to me to be the appeal of authoritarianism, the socially institutionalized outsourcing of the HARD decisions for the sake of personal peace (no matter what the consequences).

August 10, 2007 12:07 PM  

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