Monday, August 04, 2008

Conservatives Want to Use Our County to Set An Example

The Examiner has tended to be a little conservative for our taste through the sex-ed controversy, less so as the gender identity nondiscrimination bill has been the center of attention. Today's story by Kathleen Miller seems all right to me, what do you think?
Religious conservatives are hoping a referendum on a Montgomery County law protecting transgender people could become a template to repeal similar measures across the country.

Montgomery County Council members unanimously approved a measure last fall that prohibits discrimination against transgender people in housing, employment, public accommodations, and taxicab and cable service. Council members included an exemption for “personal and private” places, but nonetheless drew the ire of local conservatives, who said they feared men would be allowed in women’s bathrooms and locker rooms.

A local group, Citizens for Responsible Government, ran a successful petition drive to get the 25,000 signatures required to put the law on the county’s November ballot for possible recall. MontCo referendum seen as guide to nixing transgender laws in U.S.

It is surprising that they should get this wrong. A judge recently ruled that it was not 25,000 signatures that they needed, but 27,615 -- and they didn't have that many legitimate signatures. He is letting the petitions stand, however, because according to his method of measuring the complaint was filed too late. So, yes, it was a "successful petition drive" to get the wrong number of signatures. An appeal has been filed.
Bruce Hausknecht, judicial analyst for national conservative group Focus on the Family, said his organization is tracking the Montgomery issue.

His Colorado Springs-based group is waging its own battle against a new Colorado transgender rights law, along with other groups. Focus on the Family ran radio and print ads focusing on one thing: bathroom access.

“There’s no strategy, there’s just similar concerns among people in Montgomery County, Maryland, Colorado and Gainesville, Florida, where they’re also facing a referendum on a similar law,” Hausknecht said. “This is precisely what the transgender community ultimately wants: to open up bathrooms, locker rooms across the country.” Transgender rights advocates say the bills are about ensuring no one is denied a meal at a restaurant or an apartment because of gender issues, rather than bathroom access. But they acknowledge what they call a campaign of “fear and misinformation” has been tough to fight, even in liberal strongholds like Montgomery County and Gainesville.

Why would the "transgender community" want to "open up bathrooms, locker rooms across the country?" I mean, why? This kills me. They just make up something like that, they tell you some crazy thing that this tiny population of people supposedly "ultimately wants," out of the blue. And yes, that is hard to fight. People tend to believe other people when they say something. It's hard to realize that these people who claim to have God on their side just make it up. But that's what they do, that's what they're doing here.
“Transgender is still new to a lot of people,” said Chris Edelson, state legislative director for the Human Rights Campaign. “[Opponents] know they are working on a blank slate and if they can write something scary on it, it gets them a long way to accomplishing their goals.”

Since Minnesota outlawed discrimination against transgender people in 1993, 11 other states and the District have followed suit, as did more than 90 cities and counties, Edelson said, adding that no crimes have been linked to the measure.

“As the public becomes far more accepting of gays and lesbians, the religious right is looking for a new way to drive out their support base at election time, and they think this is going to be it,” said Steve Ralls, communications director for Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays.

Representatives of the Family Research Council did not return several phone calls. Its Web site, however, showed it is activating prayer networks to kill new laws (“including one in a D.C. suburb”) that ban discrimination against transgender people.

“May God move the Church and morally minded Americans to exercise their citizenship to restore balance before it is too late,” a prayer on the site reads. “May efforts to impose sexual identity confusion upon our children through law fail at the federal, state and local levels.”

Efforts to impose sexual identity confusion. Again, why would anybody want to do that? This only makes sense if the person speaking has doubts about their own sexuality and assumes everybody else does, too. It's not like a little boy is going to be tricked into thinking he's a girl because transgender people were treated fairly.

20 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Why would the "transgender community" want to "open up bathrooms, locker rooms across the country?" I mean, why? This kills me. They just make up something like that, they tell you some crazy thing that this tiny population of people supposedly "ultimately wants," out of the blue."

I am really shocked at this statement! I'm thinking that Dana, Cynthia and Maryanne might be too. OF COURSE they want the bathrooms opened up to them! They want to use the bathrooms of the gender that they're switching to. The language in the County Council's original bill even specifically INCLUDED bathrooms. They removed that provision only because people complained that it was so blatant -- NOT because transgenders don't want access to the bathrooms. You know that!

The thing that kills me the most about the County Council members is their dishonesty about that subject. They WANTED that bathroom language to be included but removed it for political purposes. However, most politicians would still say, "yes, we wanted the bathrooms included, but that will have to wait for another day." Instead, they completely DENY that they want bathrooms included.

I mean, their hand is IN the cookie jar, with the Bill's original language...and yet they have the audacity to deny that that was their intent!

I don't know, Jim -- I somehow expected more from you than THIS!

August 04, 2008 3:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is surprising that they should get this wrong. A judge recently ruled that it was not 25,000 signatures that they needed, but 27,615 -- and they didn't have that many legitimate signatures. He is letting the petitions stand, however, because according to his method of measuring the complaint was filed too late."

Don't expect the media to propagandize for you. 25K was what they needed because the BOE said so. The judge didn't make a "ruling" because the complaint was negligently filed late. His remarks don't have any applicability.

"Council members included an exemption for “personal and private” places,"

Like homes and country clubs.

"Why would the "transgender community" want to "open up bathrooms, locker rooms across the country?" I mean, why? This kills me."

It's because it's in their best interest to destroy the very notion of gender.

"They just make up something like that, they tell you some crazy thing that this tiny population of people supposedly "ultimately wants," out of the blue."

Out of the blue? The Council raised the topic themselves by having a specific mention of bathrooms in an earlier version of the bill. CRG didn't make that up.

You really are a snivelling liar, Jim.

"And yes, that is hard to fight. People tend to believe other people when they say something."

Then, why don't they ever believe TTF?

"It's hard to realize that these people who claim to have God on their side just make it up."

As we see above, they didn't make it up.

It's hard to realize that these people who claim to not believe in "teaching the facts" will make up anything to support the gay agenda.

August 04, 2008 3:45 PM  
Blogger JimK said...

Anon, there's no great mystery or conspiracy to this. People gotta pee. It's not a matter of "opening up" bathrooms, they just want to go in and use the toilet. In fact, you will find they do that now, when they have to go, they go. If there is any movement among transgender people to change bathroom laws I have never heard of it.

You can spin the County Council's change to the bill as "political," or you can say they wanted to pass a bill that people would like, it's exactly the same thing. It's not like they "really" wanted to get something in and gave up under pressure, they wrote a bill, people complained about part of it, they revised it. That seems like a natural open, democratic process to me.

JimK

August 04, 2008 3:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anon, there's no great mystery or conspiracy to this. People gotta pee."

And no one is stopping anyone from doing so now. You're still lying.

The County Council bill would allow trans to use any gender restroom they want, over the objections of the owner.

This is a basic injustice and the people of MC won't put up with it.

August 04, 2008 3:51 PM  
Blogger JimK said...

And no one is stopping anyone from doing so now.

Exactly, Anon. So why would they feel a need to "open up" bathrooms?

You're still lying.

Except I didn't say anybody was stopping them, in fact I said just the opposite, when they gotta go, they go.

JimK

August 04, 2008 4:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon, you idiot, the topic of "opening up the bathrooms" is the shower-nuts' obsession. No trans person has been talking about bathrooms.

There's not even anything in the law about bathrooms. You can say you're "really shocked" but trans people aren't talking about bathrooms, they're saying this isn't -- is not -- about bathrooms. It's idiots like you who want to make it be about bathrooms.

August 04, 2008 6:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was reading (belatedly) some posts from a few days back where that anonymous troll we all know and love was going on and on about how gay people led the Nazi movement (and he really doesn't see this as homophobia).

I just want to say thank you for all the people, LGBT and straight, who stand up for people like me in this forum. I'm sure y'all do it in other places as well. If it were not for people like you, my life would be a closeted nightmare, as it was when I was in the 'movement' spearheaded by groups such as FOF and PFOX, and supported by people such as the members of CRC/G/W.

Thanks again to TTF members and supporters, to friendly members of government, and as always to our friends and family in PFLAG and Mothers and Others.

Robert

August 04, 2008 9:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim, then are you saying, men who think they are women, in this county, should be required to use the men’s bathroom or locker-room just like normal men do now?

August 05, 2008 12:24 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Stunning said...

“The County Council bill would allow trans to use any gender restroom they want, over the objections of the owner.

This is a basic injustice and the people of MC won't put up with it.”


Are you REALLY suggesting that “the people of MC” would put up with these biological women using women’s bathrooms?

You know FULL WELL that “the people of MC wouldn’t put up with” what you suggest SHOULD be the case -- that biological males and biological females should use their respective “biological bathrooms” -- no matter what gender they present as.

So it would seem that what lies behind what you and your CRW lovers say -- but don’t have the courage to admit to -- is that gender transition, itself, is what should be made illegal.

And what is the ONLY ONLY solution that you propose in response to this “HORRIFIC” social mess? THE CLOSET. (Shhh, don’t talk about it. The less people talk about it, the less people will think about it. And the less people think about it, the less people will talk about how they think about it…)

August 05, 2008 3:31 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

“Jim, then are you saying, men who think they are women, in this county, should be required to use the men’s bathroom or locker-room just like normal men do now?”

“men who think they are women”

“think”

Me *thinks* you’ve been reading too much World Net Daily…

"This is such a free-flowing idea that every morning you might wake up and choose a gender," Tyler told WND. "What if a football player starts the game as a male, gets hit, walks off the field and says, 'I think I'm a female.'"

By all means, do continue to attempt to make such idiocy the issue.

Or is this really a concern of yours? Because if it is, you must be new here.

Are you?

August 05, 2008 3:57 AM  
Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

One of the trolls on another thread asked what I learned from my new-found fundamentalist friends last month, and I couldn't immediately reply, so I will do so here.

What I learned is that we are all very complex human beings, and that whenever you make the effort to really get to know someone, you will undoubtedly find a point of convergence which can then be the kernel of a relationship.

I learned that even people who are appalled at the existence of openly gay people can actually learn to like some of them. That some open evangelicals are really nice guys. That once we got to know one another and had really difficult conversations we were able to reach substantive agreement -- for instance, we agreed that civil marriage should be open to all, regardless of gender and gender preference in this country, and that sacred marriage would be the province of religious institutions. And that the history of religion should be taught in high school, both world history (which must include the East as well) and American history.

I learned that with one fellow, regardless of his religious beliefs, if his house was on fire I would rush in to save him, as he would for me as well. I learned that people who had never met a trans person before, and had no idea what it is about, now have a friend and ally. I've learned that, once again, I'm just another middle-aged woman, albeit one with an unusual history, and that the vast majority of people accept and welcome that.

I learned that if you just make an effort, you might be surprised what you discover.

August 05, 2008 8:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous" Troll: You said: "use the men’s bathroom or locker-room just like normal men do now?" Is it your contention that you are "normal"? (Even if you are one of the misguided, uneducated, sad "Anonymous" trolls who frequent this site). And just what is it about you that makes you "normal"? Your bigotry? Your ignorance? Your homophobia? Your hatred of people who are not just like you? Your distorted religious beliefs? Your hypocracy about "equality under the law"?
An "Anonymous" fan

August 05, 2008 10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the troll who says the judge in the transgender case didn't make a ruling about the number of signatures required:

"Plainly, MCRG did not gather enough signatures to meet the five percent threshold."

Page 22 of Judge Greenberg's opinion.

You're entitled to your own opinion; you're not entitled to your own facts.

In the immortal words of Tom Friedman: Suck. On. This.

August 05, 2008 5:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get a legal life. Greenberg made a comment, but that is not considered a ruling. The ruling can be found at the bottom of his decision.

August 05, 2008 6:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello, the law uses the word “perception”. You have to “think” to have a perception. If you like the word “perception”, please substitute it but the result is the same.
We live in a binary birth gender world. Normal birth gender is just that. “Perception” of a gender based on a few artificial variables does not normalize the “perceived” gender. To use the word “perception” in the law is going to “do this law in.” The public is being asked to accept a person’s thoughts, and that person could be lying. How would you know? The public is being asked the impossible. This equals a bad law.
You didn't answer my question. Which bathroom do you want these men, who have a perception that they are women, to use?

August 05, 2008 6:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When a statement like "Plainly...." is in a judge's opinion, it's a ruling, and no amount of BS from you is going to make it something else. It wasn't a "comment," whatever that means in a legal opinion. It's in there, and all sides have to live with it, unless it gets appealed by someone else.

Pray tell, what legal training do you have? Maybe then we'd all be able to assess your credibility on this question.

August 05, 2008 9:36 PM  
Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

The Republicans have taken to handing out tire gauges to people, it seems. I'd like one, if you're listening out there. They seem to believe that cutting energy consumption by 3% is a bad thing.

But to the point Obama makes about Republicans, which applies to our friends from CRG:

Obama:

"It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant.

They think it's funny that they're making fun of something that is actually true."

We put up with this here all the time. We now have the "genitalists," those with a materialistic fixation on the beauty of their genitals, as if that somehow completely overrides the reality that for others their genitals might be malformed, or diseased, or unproductive, or just plain wrong. Just as a dose of embryonic thalidomide created flippers in place of arms for some people, so DES caused me to have a female brain with male genitals. But this is too much for Wyatt and friends, who would rather remain ignorant.

Well, as I pointed out earlier, it's nice to know that there are Christian fundamentalists who actually listen and engage on issues that make them uncomfortable, and that we scientific realists can do the same as well. It is interesting, however, that someone asked me what I learned in school, and I replied, and there's been no response. As has usually been the case on this blog when they have been presented with fact and reality.

August 05, 2008 11:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is interesting, however, that someone asked me what I learned in school, and I replied, and there's been no response."

Dana, I almost responded to you this morning but I was in a rush, trying to get some things done before taking off for a couple of weeks. Maybe tomorrow.

August 06, 2008 12:51 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

"Hello, the law uses the word “perception”. You have to “think” to have a perception. If you like the word “perception”, please substitute it but the result is the same.

We live in a binary birth gender world. Normal birth gender is just that. “Perception” of a gender based on a few artificial variables does not normalize the “perceived” gender. To use the word “perception” in the law is going to “do this law in.” The public is being asked to accept a person’s thoughts, and that person could be lying. How would you know? The public is being asked the impossible. This equals a bad law.

--
You didn't answer the question: Which bathroom do you want these "women," who "think" and have the "perception that" they are men, to use?"

AGAIN, YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION, which bathroom/lockerroom do you wish those people (linked to above) should use?

You brought up the issue, therefore YOU answer the question.

Which bathroom/lockerroom do you feel that these people should use?

Or are you willing to admit that it would be just fine with you if businesses discriminated against “Christians” like you.

According to your theoretical complaint, business owners should be free to refuse service to you for wearing a cross.

Do you really think that business owners should be allowed to put a sign in the window saying “We refuse the right to refuse service to anyone who wears a religious symbol in this establishment” ?

IS THIS HOW YOU TRULY FEEL?

Obviously not, yet you continue to defend the notion that your perception and thoughts about "God" and the "Bible" -- as it relates to penis and vagina -- trump the 'perception and thought' of others -- without even ATTEMPTING to establish a difference.

It demonstrates the lack of thought you have put into your own argument.

August 07, 2008 5:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm reminded of the theory that HRH Prince Edward the Anonymous is not genuinely interested in discussion, but rather uses this blog as an opportunity to indulge his/her/its unsavory views on LGBT people, which, I would venture, are unpalatable even in his/her/its own social circles (if such even exist.

It never ceases to amaze me that some people see it as permissible to express openly such abominable opinions about queer people.

August 07, 2008 8:32 PM  

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