Sunday, November 16, 2008

Hundreds of Protests Yesterday

Yesterday there were demonstrations all around the country, some of them pretty big, protesting anti-gay laws that were passed in several states in the recent elections, most notably California's Proposition 8, which defined marriage heterosexually. Box Turtle Bulletin has summaries from a whole lot of cities, plus pictures that people took. AmericaBlog asked their readers to comment on what happened in their cities, there are about 80 comments there so far. Most of the demonstrations were small, a thousand people or fewer, but they happened in every corner of the country, in cities big and small, and even in some foreign countries. The one in Washington DC had somewhere between 500 people (Washington Times) and "What looked like tens of thousands" (Box Turtle), who gathered at the Capitol reflecting pool and then marched to Lafayette Park, near the White House. (Obvious editorial comment: it was more than 500.)

The DC protest was hit by a heavy rainstorm, and there was a tornado watch at the time. TTF treasurer Christine Grewell was there and got some pictures (I took the liberty to edit some of them a little bit). Check these out:





You can see it's not the biggest crowd that ever gathered at the Capitol, but it's a pretty good crowd, especially given that our local activist organizations didn't get involved at all. As far as I can tell, Equality Maryland's web site doesn't even mention the demonstration, for instance.

This protest is not about the big organizations, if I may say so this one is a first example of the next generation of grassroots activism. It appears that there were protests in three hundred cities around the world, all more or less "organized" through social-networking sites and blogs. The whole phenomenon began with a lady in Seattle named Amy Balliett, who got an email from a friend, and set up a web site. Friday, November 7th, the "Join the Impact" web site went up ...

365Gay has a really thorough post on the subject:
By Monday morning, a plan had emerged: Cities around the country would organize their own efforts to coordinate a synchronized protest for Sat., Nov. 15, 10:30 a.m. PST. The movement became officially global with hits from the UK and France, and by Nov. 11, over one million visitors had come to the site.

Across the country, posts on Craigslist, bulletins on MySpace, and emails on ListServs with titles like “Meet at City Hall next weekend!” and “Upset about Prop 8? Here’s what YOU can do about it,” began to buzz with notice of the upcoming national protest.

Seems to me two new-ish concepts are relevant here. The first concept is something called the smart mob. Because of cell phones -- especially text messaging -- and the Internet it is now possible to spread information from person to person, each one telling a few friends, until a great number of people share the information without any central organizing force. This is a kind of word-of-mouth that does not require physical proximity, information is divorced from the limitations of physical distance, and so you can create huge networks of people distributed over a wide area in a very short time. These demonstrations were organized in this way, with Facebook pages and Craigslist announcements, it was technologically futuristic and everything happened at the grassroots level, "just people" spreading the word to other "just people," without any charismatic figure leading the effort or any money behind it.

But most ideas tossed out onto the Internet do not find instant adoption by thousands of people. This particular issue, the reaction to noxious voting against gay people's rights, succeeded because of the second concept -- it had reached a tipping point. There has never been a very strong movement toward marriage equality in this country, even the gay community is divided on the issue, otherwise-progressive politicians wish the whole thing would just go away. But most people in the US now privately accept that gay people are ordinary good citizens, most straight people are fine with it, and most people in the US were more or less horrified to see that these hateful ballot items actually passed. And suddenly an opinion that was held privately by a lot of individuals became a public issue, people were upset and angry and all it took was a little nudge to get crowds to form in the streets of American cities from one coast to the other.

There are legal challenges to these laws, but most importantly the mood of the country has shifted. I just saw where somebody used the word "Talibangelicals." Well, the Talibangelicals worked their way into the White House, they seized control of the national dialogue in a shameful way, and now the people are taking the control back. Americans don't hate gay people, Americans don't want to deprive them of something, take away their rights, most of us just want people to be happy. The religious right has been frighteningly successful in imposing their values on us but their influence is diminishing and this is the last shred of that, they were able to get people to vote for these stupid laws. On every other wedge issue, the religious right -- you can't say the "Christian right" any more, because the Mormons are right there in the middle of it -- has lost ground, people are ready to wake up from the nightmare. Even if most of the protests were small, you have just seen a major change in the way democracy works.

46 Comments:

Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

The first part of the protest at the Mormon Temple in Kensington had 30 people, who dispersed with the downpour. However, another crowd appeared after and was there at least until 4 pm.

Since this wasn't organized from the top, most DC area residents, like Chris Grewell, attended the downtown protest instead.

What is most impressive to me was the turnout in Missoula, Lubbock, Little Rock, Boise and other red state redoubts. Very impressive.

November 16, 2008 5:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"most people in the US were more or less horrified to see that these hateful ballot items actually passed"

actually, not really

"suddenly an opinion that was held privately by a lot of individuals became a public issue, people were upset and angry"

actually, not really

"but most importantly the mood of the country has shifted"

actually, not really

"I just saw where somebody used the word "Talibangelicals.""

really?

I think everyone would be just fine with the Taliban if they anything like evangelicals

you must talk to too many lunatic fringe gay advocates

Americans, like people worldwide, like marriage just the way it is

30 states have voted to include the definition of marriage in their constitutions

all have agreed to, none have declined to

you'd think TTF officers could find something better to do on their birthday then take pictures of some failed gay protest

November 16, 2008 7:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AnonBigot-

We have redefined marriage in the past in the USA. If we did not redefine marriage to allow interracial marriages, our own president would not be able to marry in the country that he has come to rule.

You continue to be pathetic.

November 16, 2008 9:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the definition of race never included anything about race, Drick

you're deluded

what, have you been taking some of Robert's pills?

November 17, 2008 12:19 AM  
Blogger Christine said...

One sign I photographed at my birthday celebration on the mall read:

"FOR THE PEOPLE"

NOT

"FOR THE HETEROS"

My son and his girlfriend took the Chinatown bus to DC to join the rest of our family in expressing one of our family values. We believe that all people are created equal, with certain unalienable rights including the pursuit of happiness and we are willing to stand up for that principle.

I hope your next birthday celebration will be has nice as mine was.

November 17, 2008 7:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Read
Why the Prop 8 H8ters Lost
Kevin McCullough
“There has been much "hate" described in media reports since election day in the nation, much of it related to the passing of Prop 8 as a Constitutional Amendment for that state and as such is no longer touchable by a state sanctioned court. Yet hate has abounded, not from the corners of Jewish synagogues, Mormon temples, Christian churches or Catholic cathedrals. Those are just the places we've been told "hate" resides.
The "hate" was also not found in any single ethnicity, political party, or geographical demographic.
No the side that has been doing all of the hating since election day in the troubled parts of our nation have been militant activists radicals, who happen to be mostly white, mostly godless, and nearly completely all choose to engage in homosexual behavior.
It is the radical activists roaming the streets, pushing elderly women to the ground, staging obnoxious protests outside places of worship, and in some cases interfering in the midst of worship services that have expressed all of the hatred seen since election day. They have even taken to harassing people on their way to or from the church door and their car.
But these haters are ignorant and as such, many Christians, Mormons, Catholics, and Jews have shown compassion upon them.
How are they ignorant?
For one they don't seem to understand the validity of Constitutional authority, Constitutional law, and Constitutional rule. They are running around ginning up the pathetic gatherings of theirs to "override" Prop 8. They don't seem to understand that the court is under the authority of the Constitution in the state of California. They don't seem to understand that if some Kangaroo judge attempts to hijack the resounding will of the people, having now passed in two landslide victories--even when outspent on the matter 6 to 1, they will have anarchy on hand. Given that to shred the explicit language of a state's sovereign constitution is to suspend all law, and all authority found in the law.
Secondly they don't seem to understand that those of us who choose not to engage in homosexuality, and even those who do--but do not take to acting like the equivalent of broodish animals--aren't fooled by what is attempting to be done. The activists keep marching, screaming and forcing spittle to fly in little old ladies faces, for what end? To change the definition of a word. Prop 8 didn't say that those who are protesting like wild coyotes can't create a contract in which every arrangement in life that they would like can be legally protected and allowed for. There is no discrimination going on against those who choose homosexual sex, they may still practice it, obsess about it, discuss it, believe it, and do it. But there is also no value in looking at the sacred sexual union of a man and a woman--with all the societal potential that such a union provides--and summarily saying that all other sexual unions should be considered the same exact thing. They are not the same biologically, emotionally, nor physically and it is easy to determine this.
Thirdly they are being grossly dishonest. No one has attempted to refuse a constitutional right to any of these persons. Marriage is a sacred union between a man and a woman. The society has a right to sanction such a union because of that union's potential to insure the future of that society. Those who engage in homosexual actions cannot conceive. Those who do, do so simulating either heterosexual behavior either with a human or via artificial means. But nonetheless the ingredients that are required must be present to bake the proverbial cake.
But further on this point those who engage in homosexual behavior are still under NO discrimination. They can legally protect their estate, visit their partners in hospitals, and even dictate the conditions under which fidelity to that union be observed or insure adulterous penalties.
In California, the civil union law is one of the most liberal in the nation. But even if it were not the drawing up of a legally binding document insuring rights is now, and has been available since before the term "gay marriage" was even considered.”

November 17, 2008 8:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tell Kevin McCullough of the MuscleHead Revolution we don't need any muscleheads around here.

November 17, 2008 8:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous" TROLL: It is now time for you to pack up your bag and leave this site. You are boring, tiresome, whiney, and - sad to say - becoming more pathetic with your rants. Find another site that is more reflective of your zany, cuckoo conservative ideas and link up there. Go away...and peace be with you!

November 17, 2008 2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how am I pathetic when I support a cause that hasn't lost one round yet?

30 times in 30 states, voters have had a chance to incorporate the definition of marriage into their state constitutions and they have chosen to do so every time

meanwhile, a couple of hundred gays raise a tame ruckus over it outside the Capitol

that'll scare the heck outta 'em!

November 17, 2008 4:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous, would you like some of the pills? I'll share.

rrjr

November 17, 2008 4:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

meanwhile, a couple of hundred gays raise a tame ruckus over it outside the Capitol

Keep spinning lies is apparently all you can do. The fact is tens of thousands of civil rights activists protested putting minority rights to the popular vote across the country and around the world.

November 17, 2008 5:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

whatever, CBTS

the real spin is that anything happened that would persuade any politician, including our new President-elect, to support such a ridiculous and radical redefinition of real marriage

in other words,

you didn't scare the heck outta 'em!

out of a world of billions, a few thousand waved some pretty rainbow flags

and no one was really concerned about how to prevent a repeat

November 17, 2008 7:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrea- not anon
Focus on the Family(Not my own title for that group but I won't write a naughty word here) announced it will lay off 200+ employees today - after spending more than $500,000 on opposing Prop.8. Gosh, I guess it was more important to stop gay marriage in California than keeping those Real Decent God fearing people employed. My interpretation- God hates FOTF. Now 200+ families will have a pretty crappy Christmas. Guess FOTF is having its own war on Christmas this year.

November 17, 2008 9:02 PM  
Blogger BlackTsunami said...

The following is the reason why I never take Kevin McCullough seriously when dealing with lgbt issues:

"The 'alphas' in homosexual relationships, be they men or women, are many times recruiting younger partners. A vast percentage of those who enter the homosexual life do so after having been sexually initiated by an older person of their sex—be it consensual or not—it usually has the feel of enticement or seduction." —Kevin McCullough, The
‘Gay’ Truth, May 30, 2003

But he is fun to laugh at.

November 17, 2008 9:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Anonymous" TROLL - You ARE pathetic!! By the way...does your definition of "real marriage" include the recognition and acceptance of a 50%
failure rate? I propose a Constitutional Amendment that will ban divorce! Yes..let's take away our citizens' cherished right of ending the sacred institution of marriage. Be sure to include the opinions of those children who have experienced the destruction of their family life.

November 17, 2008 10:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"after spending more than $500,000 on opposing Prop.8. Gosh, I guess it was more important to stop gay marriage in California than keeping those Real Decent God fearing people employed."

So, you think the mission of an organization should be to provide employment. These people will find employment elsewhere.

Meanwhile, if Barack Obama had simply restrained himself to the level of campaign spending of John McCain, think of how many people like his brother George, who couldn't afford to go to mechanic school, could have received vocational training to work at a place with a need. The things that that money could have gone for instead of fake Greek temples and half hour commercials.

November 17, 2008 10:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

""Anonymous" TROLL - You ARE pathetic!!"

gays lost

they aren't getting married

even the most liberal President in history doesn't support a redefinition of marriage

why do you think the center-right land he temporarily presides over will?

truth is, tolerance of the gay agenda is a pendulum

it's gone as far as it can

time has come for the backswing

duck!

November 17, 2008 10:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

(Nov. 17) - Prince shows his true colors on the touchy subject of gay marriage in a rare new interview, and his views may surprise fans.

"God came to earth and saw people sticking it wherever and doing it with whatever," he says in the new issue of the New Yorker, presumably referring to Sodom and Gomorrah or the Flood. "And he just cleared it all out. He was, like, 'Enough.'"

November 17, 2008 10:54 PM  
Blogger BlackTsunami said...

anonymous, I love the talking points about the "gay agenda" and how the country is "center right."

I think the California decision was a good thing in a way because it has galvanized the lgbt community. For the first time, the religious right seems to be at a loss concerning what to do.

Marriage equality in some form or another is inevitable. It's not necessarily an issue that's going away.

And as far as what you mean about the "gay agenda," I for one welcome whatever "pendulum swing" the religious right will try to cause.

It may give us a chance to talk about their 20-year campaign (i.e. reliance on lies about gays and gerbils, gays molesting children, distorting scientific studies, and bad studies - Paul Cameron, etc.) to demonize the lgbt community.

You really don't think those things won't come up, do you?

November 17, 2008 11:00 PM  
Blogger BlackTsunami said...

Hold up, corvette

Prince claims to have been misquoted - http://www.gaywired.com/Article.cfm?ID=20909

so don't start burning your buttless pants just yet

November 17, 2008 11:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Proposition 8 supporters are calling on leaders of the "No on 8" campaign and government officials to denounce the attacks against those who supported California's constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

"Amidst all this lawlessness, harassment, trampling of civil rights and now domestic terrorism, one thing stands out: the deafening silence of our elected officials," said Frank Schubert, co-manager of "Yes on 8."

"Not a single elected leader has spoken out against what is happening. Where is Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger while churches are being attacked? And where is Senator Dianne Feinstein while people are losing their jobs and grandmothers are being bullied by an angry mob?"

Schubert spoke at a press conference Friday, 10 days after Proposition 8 received 52.5 percent of the vote.

Consider some of the recent outrage:

• In Sacramento, a musical theater director was forced to resign after he was blacklisted for contributing $1,000 to the initiative.

• A Mexican restaurant in Los Angeles has been boycotted after a relative of the owner donated to the coalition.

• Numerous churches have had their property defaced.

• An unknown white powder was mailed to several Mormon temples and the national headquarters of the Knights of Columbus.

"For 14 months, we have been called bigots and hatemongers, and we have not retaliated against these unprecedented attacks," said Jim Garlow, a pastor in San Diego. "But we will not be silenced."

November 17, 2008 11:16 PM  
Blogger BlackTsunami said...

The boycott is perfectly ethical and NO DIFFERENT than anything the American Family Association has done to McDonalds or Ford Motors.

Scott Eckern choose to resign just like gay composers and owners of musicals choose not to allow the theater where he works to use their work.

Again, perfectly ethical.

The white powder was non-toxic and it is not known who sent it or where it came from. Speculation could go anywhere from an angry lgbt to a hoax perpetrated by Mormons.

My point in saying that is that it is unfair to blame gays for the white powder at the Mormon church until a FULL investigation takes place.

And many have spoken out against any show of wildcat violence due to the passage of Proposition 8. I guess Mr. Schubert would know acknowledge this because it would ruin his spin.

But in a general sense, this connotation of gays rioting just doesn't stand up to scrutinty. I am of the opinion that protesting and boycotts are fair parts of the political process that have been used by both sides. But trying to spin this notion that gays are advocating anarchy just dont hold up when one looks at all the pictures and film footage from the Saturday protests. In my city of Columbia, SC, it was a VERY peaceful demonstration. And this was not the anamoly but the standard for all Saturday protests.

And about this thing concerning haters and bigots, when you lie and say things like kindergartners will be forced to learn about homosexuality (and I assume that means sexual intercourse) or gays will try to force pastors to perform marriages under the penalty of being arrested, what are you supposed to be called when those charges are proved not to be true but you keep repeating them?

November 18, 2008 12:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon noted:

“Proposition 8 supporters are calling on leaders of the "No on 8" campaign and government officials to denounce the attacks against those who supported California's constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.”

And

“Not a single elected leader has spoken out against what is happening. Where is Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger while churches are being attacked? And where is Senator Dianne Feinstein while people are losing their jobs and grandmothers are being bullied by an angry mob?”

Could it be that no elected official wants to speak out in defense of church backed propaganda campaign that used lies as the centerpiece of its efforts? Church money was used to scare people into believing that if Prop 8 didn’t pass, schools would be teaching young children about gay marriage. This simply isn’t true. The teachers unions didn’t appreciate being used as pawn in the “Religious Right Game,” and countered with their own ads trying to get out the truth, but it wasn’t enough.

Backing the churches on this lie is about the same as backing George Bush on his lie about WMD.

People have noticed a pattern that the right wing has been using – scare people to get the result you want – it doesn’t matter if the truth gets lost in your propaganda campaign as long as you get the results you’re aiming for. Educated people around the country are getting fed up with this tactic and they’re not going to allow it to continue.

“For 14 months, we have been called bigots and hatemongers, and we have not retaliated against these unprecedented attacks," said Jim Garlow, a pastor in San Diego. "But we will not be silenced.”

14 months? That’s nothing. Many gay people have suffered from name calling and far worse for decades. They have lived in guilt, shame, and a self-hatred promoted by people claiming they know what God has planned for us. There wouldn’t be the concept of “coming out of the closet” if it wasn’t for centuries long debasement of people who happen to find they are attracted to the same sex – people would just be who they are and live without fear of what was outside the “closet.” I don’t consider myself gay and I never participated in what the religious right calls “the gay lifestyle.” I went to a Catholic high school, and as far as I know, there were no gay people in it. I went to my 10 and 20 year reunions, and no one came out to me as gay. Knowing what I do now, I doubt that there really weren’t any gay people in my class; I wouldn’t be surprised though if there were a number of people who were simply too afraid to ever come out.

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is a wise old adage. The simplest justification for this wisdom is that many people will treat you in a way that mirrors how you have treated them. If you treat them badly, you can expect them to treat you badly in return.

I abhor any form of violence. If the allegations by the churches that people are being assaulted are true, then those folks perpetrating the crimes should be arrested.

However, the churches should not be surprised at the frustrated and angry response they have provoked. The GLBT community is sick and tired of “holier than thou” religious groups, many of which have their own sins to atone for making gays the latest focus of their need to feel superior and control other peoples lives in the name of “doing what the Bible says is right,” or “doing God’s will.” Was the Catholic Church “doing God’s will” when it shuffled pedophiles around to keep them from getting caught? If these churches are so holy, why did they have to lie to get the vote to go their way?

The GLBT community “will not be silenced” either.

Have a nice day,

Cynthia

November 18, 2008 12:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If these churches are so holy, why did they have to lie to get the vote to go their way?"

What church did that? Could we have an example?

"Church money was used to scare people into believing that if Prop 8 didn’t pass, schools would be teaching young children about gay marriage. This simply isn’t true."

Other than Mormons, did any other religious group contribute to this?

Furthermore, how is speculation about the effect of legislation a "lie"?

It may be mistaken but no one can see the future. You can argue against it but no one has lied by saying it would happen. I personally find the scene depicted in the commercial in California to very plausible. Teachers can and do teach kids about the society they live in. Change the definition of marriage to include partnerships between sexual deviants and it will naturally become part of that.

"If the allegations by the churches that people are being assaulted are true, then those folks perpetrating the crimes should be arrested.

However, the churches should not be surprised at the frustrated and angry response they have provoked."

Wow! Brazenly blaming the victim.

If we exercise our freedom of speech, we shouldn't be surprised if people who don't like what we say get violent.

Is that what you're saying?

November 18, 2008 5:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh Anon, you and your misunderstanding of sexual orientation are so pathetic I almost feel sorry for you. Here's some news you won't like but hey, you can be left behind in your homophobia or you can move into the 21st century with the rest of us because change is coming. How much and how soon is anyone's guess, but it is coming.

"We – the undersigned -- respectfully call for the repeal of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Those of us endorsing this letter have dedicated our lives to defending the rights of our citizens to believe whatever they wish. Scholarly data shows there are approximately one million gay and lesbian veterans in the United States today as well as 65,000 gays and lesbians currently serving in our armed forces. They have served our nation honorably. We support the recent comments of former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General John Shalikashvili, who has concluded that repealing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy would not harm and would indeed help our armed forces. As is the case with Great Britain, Israel, and other nations that allow gays and lesbians to serve openly, our service members are professionals who are able to work together effectively despite differences in race, gender, religion, and sexuality. Such collaboration reflects the strength and the best traditions of our democracy.

Former Secretary of the Army Clifford Alexander
Admiral Charles Larson, USN (ret.)
Lieutenant General Quinn Becker, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Henry Emerson, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Robert Flowers, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Robert Gard, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Jerry Hilmes, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Claudia Kennedy, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Donald Kerrick, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Ira Owens, USA (ret.)
Lieutenant General Thomas Rienzi, USA (ret.)
Vice Admiral Harold Koenig, USN (ret.)
Vice Admiral Jack Shanahan, USN (ret.)
Vice Admiral James Zimble, USN (ret.)
Major General Anders Aadland, USA (ret.)
Major General Floyd Baker, USA (ret.)
Major General Harry Brooks Jr., USA (ret.)
Major General Leslie Burger, USA (ret.)
Major General Alexander Burgin, USANG (ret.)
Major General Rosetta Burke, AUS (ret.)*
Major General William Burke, USA (ret.)
Major General Michael Conrad, USA (ret.)
Major General Eugene Cromartie, USA (ret.)
Major General James Delk, AUS (ret.)
Major General Oliver Dillard, USA (ret.)
Major General John Faith, USA (ret.)
Major General Jack Farris, USAF (ret.)
Major General Fred Forster, USANG (ret.)
Major General Robert Gamrath, AUS (ret.)
Major General Albert Genetti Jr., USA (ret.)
Major General Luis Gonzales-Vales, AUS (ret.)
Major General David Hale, USA (ret.)
Major General Randy Jayne, USANG (ret.)
Major General Lawrence Johnson, AUS (ret.)
Major General Dennis Laich, USA (ret.)
Major General Frederick Lawson, AUS (ret.)
Major General Thomas Lynch, USA (ret.)
Major General Dennis Malcor, USA (ret.)
Major General John Roth, AUS (ret.)
Major General Henry Rasmussen, USA (ret.)
Major General Alan Salisbury, USA (ret.)
Major General Michael Scotti Jr., USA (ret.)**
Major General Harry Sieben, USANG (ret.)
Major General Paul Smith, USA (ret.)
Major General Robert B. Smith, USA (ret.)
Major General Charles Starr Jr., USA (ret.)
Major General Story Stevens, USA (ret.)
Major General Joseph E. Turner, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General John C. Adams, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Clara Adams-Ender, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Hugh Aitken, USMC (ret.)
Brigadier General John "Joe" Allen, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General Patricia Anderson, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Dale Barber, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General George Baxter, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Baxter, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General George Blysak, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Harold Bowman, USANG (ret.)
Brigadier General Douglas Bradley, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Jack Capps, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Richard Carter, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Steve Chapplis, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General BG David Cole, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General William Colvin, USANG (ret.)
Brigadier General Joseph Cutrona, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Tom Daniels, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General Von DeLoatch, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Dilworth, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General George Eggers Jr., USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Evelyn Foote, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Giffen, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Hardy Jr., USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Carlos Hayden, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Edwin Heffelfinger, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General James Hunt, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General John H. Johns, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General J.D Johnson, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Keith H. Kerr, CSMR (ret.)
Brigadier General Douglas Kinnard, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Dean Mann, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General James Martin, USAF (ret.)
Brigadier General William Meehan II, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Harold Miller, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Kenneth Newbold, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General I.R. Obenchain Jr., USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Phil Peay, USANG (ret.)
Brigadier General Dorothy Pocklington, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Poirot, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Philip Pushkin, USANG (ret.)
Brigadier General Virgil Richard, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General William Richter, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Kenneth Rieth, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Ernst Roberts, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Murray Sagsveen, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General Norman Salisbury, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Donald Schenk, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Bettye Simmons, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Theodore Vander Els, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Daniel Wardrop, USA (ret.)
Brigadier General Robert Watling, AUS (ret.)
Brigadier General John Weinzettle, USA (ret.)
Rear Admiral James Barnett, USN (ret.)
Rear Admiral Robert Krasner, USN (ret.)
Rear Admiral Charles Rauch, USN (ret.)
Rear Admiral Alan Steinman, USPHS (ret.)

* AUS is the Army of the United States.
**General Scotti passed away in September, 2007. His widow asked that his name remain on this statement."

November 18, 2008 7:50 AM  
Blogger BlackTsunami said...

You know very well that's not what cynthia was saying.

and that part about children being taught homosexuality was more than mistaken - it was an outright lie.

The California Board of Education made a statement as such - http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/10/22/4092

And this lie was bought and paid for by the Mormon church.

Lastly, that comment about "sexual deviants" was inappropriate.

November 18, 2008 7:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon asked a number of questions… unfortunately I only have time to respond to one right now. Let’s start with this one:

“Furthermore, how is speculation about the effect of legislation a "lie"?

It may be mistaken but no one can see the future. You can argue against it but no one has lied by saying it would happen. I personally find the scene depicted in the commercial in California to very plausible.”

I suppose if you take this stance, any extrapolation of legislation can be considered to be “very plausible.” Let’s take the extrapolation depicted in this video for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q28UwAyzUkE
This is known as the “Proposition 8 Home Invasion” ad. Should we consider this “speculation about the effect of legislation a lie,” or considering what I know from having a Mormon brother who lived for over a year in my home, had Mormon missionaries visit us at my home, dated a Mormon for 6 years, and rebuffed their repeated attempts to convert me and tell me how I should live, should I claim that “I personally find the scene depicted in the commercial in California to be very plausible”?

Here’s the ad from the yes on 8 folks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PgjcgqFYP4

Unlike what the ad implies, Prop 8 says nothing about teaching second graders (or any other school children) about gay marriage. I’ve already put up the links for Prop 8 elsewhere here, but you can Google and find the law yourself if you like.

I personally think you have to consider both types of ad a lie. I don’t think you can say one is “just speculation” and not the other.

Have a nice day,

Cynthia

November 18, 2008 8:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Y'all are leaving out the biggest lie of all: that if Prop 8 didn't pass, all churches of all denominations, regardless of their own beliefs, would be REQUIRED to perform gay marriages. This was, and is, a flat-out, bald-faced lie.

"Liars for Christ." And it wasn't just Mormons, it was an across-the-board falsehood trumpeted by a wide variety of Christian denominations.

If their God truly does exist, they will be in for some serious 'splainin' when they get to meet him. For those who believe in hell, I suggest these liars strip down 'cause it's about to get mighty hot for them.

GA

November 18, 2008 9:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Poor little "religious" bigots being assaulted by violent queer people. This is the biggest lie of them all.

November 18, 2008 10:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Last Saturday's "big" protests were so funny, we're in for a sequel.

Sure to get lots of laughs from lots of folks is the day gays will really get us all by not going to work:

"In the wake of Proposition 8's passage, gays across the country are mobilizing. There is a widespread gay boycott planned for December 10, 2008.

I first read about this protest in Joel Stein's column in the LA Times. I'm not sure how much truth is at the heart of Stein's actually coming up with this scheme, but that's irrelevant now. The protest is officially on.

JointheImpact.com, a Seattle-based site that was created after the election to organize protests, has enthusiastically offered their support. The strike's official site DayWithoutAGay.org is filled with tips and links for people to get involved.

The strike has reached out to social networking sites like Twitter and the all-important Facebook.

In his column Stein jokes, "People, we figure, will have no assistance at libraries or gym class and will madly butcher their hair. Subaru dealerships shouldn't bother opening. Entertainment journalism will take such a hit, TMZ will have to report hockey scores."

Despite the obvious jokes about hairdressers and fashionistas, Stein has a point. Hopefully, America will realize how much of the economy is supported by LGBT dollars and efforts. This is an important step in the voting public recognizing just how significant a population they are marginalizing.

The gay-out organizers have taken into account some obvious concerns. For people not out at work, just call in sick. For people who absolutely positively canNOT miss one day of their job, okay fine, they can still do their part. Go to work, but don't take part in the rest of the national economy. Don't spend any money, don't buy anything, don't go to bars, the gym, or anywhere else for the matter. That said, December 10 will not be a day to disappear. Day Without A Gay has pages of available volunteer opportunities so people can put their time off to good use and high visibility."

Coincidentally, also opening that week is the remake of "The Day The Earth Stood Still".

That oughta scare they heck outta 'em!

Ha ha ha ha ha!

November 18, 2008 6:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I speculate no one will notice

November 18, 2008 7:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yeah just like no one "noticed" our "join the impact" protests.

tell me anonymous, did you predict a mccain victory by a landslde?

November 18, 2008 10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bet anonymous will note and comment.

November 19, 2008 7:32 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yahoo! The Democrats picked up another Senate seat in Alaska. Alaska!

This of course means Palin can't appoint herself to fill Steven's seat now that he's the GOP's convicted felon/lame-duck Senator.

November 19, 2008 10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"tell me anonymous, did you predict a mccain victory by a landslde?"

No, I didn't. I thought he'd win but never said anything about a landslide. Turned out the Dems sabotaged his campaign by destroying the banking system by forcing Fannie Mae to take on mortgages that couldn't be repaid. They calculated the average voter would never understand that and simply blame the White House. Before the banking collapse, McCain was leading in the polls. Once again, excessive government meddling has hurt our economy and there wasn't time for the public to become educated about it. So, we got a election victor who has espoused socialism.

Hopefully, for all our sakes, he'll turn out to be more of a pragmatic centrist than his rhetoric. I guess, in that sense, it's probably for the best that he never takes the initiative but is more of a follower.

I did, however, predict that Californians would approve Prop 8 last Spring and was roundly derided by TTFers who said I was a pathetic throwback to the Victorian era or something like that.

You see, marriage will never be redefined to include sexual deviant relationships.

Our President-elect has followed the party line on that.

November 19, 2008 10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You see, marriage will never be redefined to include sexual deviant relationships.
Anoymous, November 19, 2008 10:23 AM"

I'm saving this one because crow is a dish best served cold.

November 19, 2008 10:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This of course means Palin can't appoint herself to fill Steven's seat now that he's the GOP's convicted felon/lame-duck Senator."

That's probably for the best. She'll have more national credibility if she wins the election outright in 2010.

The fact that a politician convicted of a Federal crime could run such a close race says something. Alaska is as Republican as D.C. is Democratic. Palin will win easily.

November 19, 2008 10:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As we approach Nov. 20th, the annual Transgender day of Remembrance, the name of Teish Cannon is unfortunately added to the list of names to remember:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1226915853106950.xml&coll=1


Peace,

Cynthia

November 19, 2008 10:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Huckabee/Hannity in 2012.

BTW, Sean Hannity's dating site has a 'men seeking men' section. Absolutely filled with profiles of military men.

rrjr

November 19, 2008 10:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The fact that a politician convicted of a Federal crime could run such a close race says something."

Sure it does. It says Alaskan GOP supporters are willing vote for a convicted felon.

November 19, 2008 10:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Huckabee/Hannity in 2012."

The ticket is Palin/Jindal. Huck has a passion for education and will head that department.

"BTW, Sean Hannity's dating site has a 'men seeking men' section. Absolutely filled with profiles of military men."

Sean Hannity has a dating site?

November 19, 2008 11:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He does. Go to his website and click on "Hannidate".

rrjr

November 19, 2008 2:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://hannidate.hannity.com/

November 19, 2008 3:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrea- not anon
Yes, Palin/Jindal- two creationists! Princess Sarah back on the scene! and when is the wedding taking place?

November 19, 2008 5:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

having religious faith doesn't disqualify you from office, Androgena

being an evolutionist and secular materialist might, considering the suffering such people caused in the last century of the second millenium

November 19, 2008 6:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

11/29/08-12/01/08
Mormons Investigated on Prop. 8 Funding
The California Fair Political Practices Commission will investigate the Mormon Church's allegedly unreported contributions to the campaign to eliminate marriage equality in the state.

Independent group Californians Against Hate filed with the commission after Proposition 8 was passed on November 4, according to the Salt Lake Tribune. Organization leader Fred Karger charges that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not report investments in phone banking, direct mailers, transportation into California for out-of-state Mormon volunteers, commercials, video broadcasts, and a mobile speakers bureau.

Karger said this step by the commission is a good sign, since the commission takes on less than 5% of complaints. While Roman Porter, the commission's executive director, said the move isn't indicative of anything, he added that the church could be fined up to $5,000 per violation if found at fault.

Californians Against Hate calculated in October that LDS followers had contributed more than $24 million in support of gay marriage bans in California and Arizona.

The LDS Church says it has approximately 770,000 members in California, accounting for about 2% of the state's population.
Adovacate.com

November 29, 2008 10:49 AM  

Post a Comment

<< Home