Monday, November 08, 2010

Tolerance ... Agenda -- What?

The New York Times this weekend:
HELENA, Mont. — Alarmed by evidence that gay and lesbian students are common victims of schoolyard bullies, many school districts are bolstering their antiharassment rules with early lessons in tolerance, explaining that some children have “two moms” or will grow up to love members of the same sex.

But such efforts to teach acceptance of homosexuality, which have gained urgency after several well-publicized suicides by gay teenagers, are provoking new culture wars in some communities.

Many educators and rights advocates say that official prohibitions of slurs and taunts are most effective when combined with frank discussions, from kindergarten on, about diverse families and sexuality.

Angry parents and religious critics, while agreeing that schoolyard harassment should be stopped, charge that liberals and gay rights groups are using the antibullying banner to pursue a hidden “homosexual agenda,” implicitly endorsing, for example, same-sex marriage. In Efforts to End Bullying, Some See Agenda

Q: who is hiding the homosexual agenda? Whoever is behind it, they are very good at making their insidious agenda look exactly like decency and common sense.

Sexual orientation is the least important and least interesting thing in the world. Exception: if you are dating someone, you will eventually want to know if that person finds you attractive in a romantic or sexual way. Otherwise, what? I simply cannot understand why some people have decided that this one dimension of human personality shall be the feature that distinguishes good people from evil. But in fact we have people right here in our little suburban county who spend their days thinking up bad things to say about gay people, and writing articles about how bad gay people are, going on TV to complain about them. I don't mean for a hobby, either, our county's school district actually has a guy advising them on issues in the development of the health curriculum who makes his living saying and writing negative things about gay people. He thinks gay people should be put in jail. He thinks SpongeBob SquarePants went too far when he encouraged viewers to be tolerant of others.

And I have another question: why is "two moms" in quotes in this NYT article?

It is strange in a tiring, sad way to see how the Times pits "educators and rights advocates" against "angry parents and religious critics." What about the great majority of parents who are not angry, who welcome a more thorough, objective, and fair education for their children? What about the many religious leaders who are not critics but promote a spiritual lesson of love and acceptance?
Last month, the federal Department of Education told schools they were obligated, under civil rights laws, to try to prevent harassment, including that based on sexual orientation and gender identity. But the agency did not address the controversy over more explicit classroom materials in grade schools.

Some districts, especially in larger cities, have adopted tolerance lessons with minimal dissent. But in suburban districts in California, Illinois and Minnesota, as well as here in Helena, the programs have unleashed fierce opposition.

“Of course we’re all against bullying,” Mr. DeMato, one of numerous pastors who opposed the plan, said in an interview. “But the Bible says very clearly that homosexuality is wrong, and Christians don’t want the schools to teach subjects that are repulsive to their values.”

There is a big distinction which these people try to fudge over with careful wordplay. If you are a Christian and you interpret the Bible in a particular way (and it does not "say very clearly that homosexuality is wrong"), and you find that your sexual orientation is toward members of your own sex, you may choose, out of deference to your religious authority, to suppress your natural inclinations and pretend you are heterosexual. It sounds to me like a recipe for disaster, but as an individual you certainly have the right to make that choice, to deny yourself real love so that you can keep the prohibitions of your religion.

But religious people must understand that not everyone believes as they do. The appreciation of differences is a fundamental requirement for a democratic civil society, if there is to be decency and peace in the community. The Christian who believes that homosexuality is sinful has every right to deny and distort his or her own emotions out of a sense of duty, but they have no right to judge a person who decides differently for themselves. This observation should be especially true for Christians -- Jesus himself taught to "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

25 Comments:

Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

Jim writes,

But religious people must understand that not everyone believes as they do. The appreciation of differences is a fundamental requirement for a democratic civil society, if there is to be decency and peace in the community.

We do understand, Jim, we do...that understanding however does not extend to using the imprimatur of the State to advance what is the clear (really now...there is little, if anything, to hide anymore) agenda of a few. And when it comes to public education, the imprimatur of the State is unmistakable, and it goes without saying that the public has a say, not to mention an interest, in such deliberations as well as the outcomes.

While the "appreciation of differences" is an article of faith for those on the liberal-left, if the power of the State is pressed into service to impose the will of the few upon the many there will not be peace in the community. Additionally, outside the cannons of multiculturalism, I am at a loss as to how such an appreciation is "a fundamental requirement for a democratic civil society".

Bullying is a serious problem that has been with us for a very long time. It will never be eliminated, but it can be contained. The effort to contain it however will be compromised if it is apparent that this campaign against bullying is being utilized by those with ulterior motives. That would be unfortunate.

November 09, 2010 12:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Judge not, lest you be judged, Orin.

November 09, 2010 7:20 AM  
Anonymous svelte_brunette said...

Hi Orin,

Sorry I haven’t had time to respond to your post on the other thread yet – I embarked on a long overdue project to insulate my crawl space this weekend and I’ve been short on time. I only have a couple of minutes to address your issues, this morning, but I’ll get a start at least.

Orin wrote:

“We do understand, Jim, we do...that understanding however does not extend to using the imprimatur of the State to advance what is the clear (really now...there is little, if anything, to hide anymore) agenda of a few. And when it comes to public education, the imprimatur of the State is unmistakable, and it goes without saying that the public has a say, not to mention an interest, in such deliberations as well as the outcomes.”

I actually agree with you on a lot of this post Orin, but as you might imagine, I have a totally different perspective.

The State should definitely NOT be advancing the agenda of a small and shrinking minority of people who identify themselves as “Christians” who regularly denigrate the LGBT community, conflate them with pedophiles, and try and claim that they’re promiscuous spreaders of AIDS trying to recruit their children in our schools. Nor should the State be advancing the agenda of a small religiously motivated group that believes allowing gay people to get married will certainly mean the destruction of society as we know it. Nor should the State placate this group of people that somehow believes that even though every one KNOWS there are 66,000 gays and lesbians in the military, and many of their heterosexual colleagues know who they are too, that allowing people to actually FIND OUT which ones of their colleagues are gay (surprise!) is going to utterly destroy our already crippled military capacity.


“While the "appreciation of differences" is an article of faith for those on the liberal-left, if the power of the State is pressed into service to impose the will of the few upon the many there will not be peace in the community. Additionally, outside the cannons of multiculturalism, I am at a loss as to how such an appreciation is "a fundamental requirement for a democratic civil society".”

Because our own American history (and that of many other countries) has shown, that any time any “other” group of people have been treated as second, third, or fourth class citizens, problems, animosity, and often violence invariably follows. Bullying is just the tip of the iceberg. Of course our country was founded on depicting Native Americans as the “other,” or “pagans,” and “heathens,” making it quite righteous for the Christians of the time to advocate wiping them out. The “other” paradigm also supported slavery for decades, but slowly we have learned from our mistakes.

The State should not be pressed into service promoting the false sense of moral and social superiority that “Christians” seem to need to feel over the LGBT community. If they cannot get that from their God, as a state that use to practice “freedom of religion,” they have no business trying to force the State to promote their agenda.

Have a nice day,

Cynthia

November 09, 2010 10:16 AM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

Anonymous scribbles,
Judge not, lest you be judged, Orin.

I reply,
You might want to include the following verse of Matthew 7:1, that is, verse 2, "For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you." Also, since scripture should be used to better understand the meaning of scripture, you might want to consider this, from the John 7:24, "Judge not according to bthe cappearance, but judge righteous judgment."

Context is important when attempting to understand (as opposed to scoring cheap debate points) scripture, or really to wax secular for a moment here, just about any great philosophical work, like The Republic by Plato.

Cynthia then writes,

Sorry I haven’t had time to respond to your post on the other thread yet – I embarked on a long overdue project to insulate my crawl space this weekend and I’ve been short on time. I only have a couple of minutes to address your issues, this morning, but I’ll get a start at least.

I hope the project got completed...I am hiring a tile setter to put in a tile back splash in my kitchen (I've already replaced the cheap, 10 year old countertops with granite and had the cabinets painted). Home improvement projects are a chore even when one has the money to hire someone to do some/all of the work.

I wrote,
“We do understand, Jim, we do...that understanding however does not extend to using the imprimatur of the State to advance what is the clear (really now...there is little, if anything, to hide anymore) agenda of a few. And when it comes to public education, the imprimatur of the State is unmistakable, and it goes without saying that the public has a say, not to mention an interest, in such deliberations as well as the outcomes.”

I actually agree with you on a lot of this post Orin, but as you might imagine, I have a totally different perspective.

The State should definitely NOT be advancing the agenda of a small and shrinking minority of people who identify themselves as “Christians” who regularly denigrate the LGBT community, conflate them with pedophiles, and try and claim that they’re promiscuous spreaders of AIDS trying to recruit their children in our schools. Nor should the State be advancing the agenda of a small religiously motivated group that believes allowing gay people to get married will certainly mean the destruction of society as we know it.

November 10, 2010 1:17 AM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

November 10, 2010 1:17 AM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

November 10, 2010 1:17 AM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

November 10, 2010 1:19 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

Researchers are finding that not only are humans hardwired for aggression, but there may also be "a biological basis for human compassion. Brain scans reveal that when we contemplate violence done to others we activate the same regions in our brains that fire up when mothers gaze at their children, suggesting that caring for strangers may be instinctual. "

The USA is now starting to grapple with the issue of bullying by attempting to teach empathy and respect for others in our public schools. Canada has done so with good results since 1996 through the Roots of Empathy program. Results from 12,000+ school students enrolled in Roots indicate a nearly 50% decrease in school bullying behavior. Follow-up studies show these effects have lasted up to three years later so far. Empathy also increased in students who received this program in their classroom.

Here's how the NY Times describes the program:

"...Roots arranges monthly class visits by a mother and her baby (who must be between two and four months old at the beginning of the school year). Each month, for nine months, a trained instructor guides a classroom using a standard curriculum that involves three 40-minute visits – a pre-visit, a baby visit, and a post-visit. The program runs from kindergarten to seventh grade. During the baby visits, the children sit around the baby and mother (sometimes it’s a father) on a green blanket (which represents new life and nature) and they try to understand the baby’s feelings. The instructor helps by labeling them. “It’s a launch pad for them to understand their own feelings and the feelings of others,” explains Gordon. “It carries over to the rest of class.”

...the kids do a lot of “perspective taking.” When the baby is too small to raise its own head, for example, the instructor asks the children to lay their heads on the blanket and look around from there. Perspective taking is the cognitive dimension of empathy – and like any skill it takes practice to master. (Cable news hosts, take note.)

Children learn strategies for comforting a crying baby. They learn that one must never shake a baby. They discover that everyone comes into the world with a different temperament, including themselves and their classmates. They see how hard it can be to be a parent, which helps them empathize with their own mothers and fathers. And they marvel at how capacity develops. Each month, the baby does something that it couldn’t do during its last visit: roll over, crawl, sit up, maybe even begin walking. Witnessing the baby’s triumphs – even something as small as picking up a rattle for the first time — the children will often cheer.

...The results can be dramatic. In a study of first- to third-grade classrooms, Schonert-Reichl focused on the subset of kids who exhibited “proactive aggression” – the deliberate and cold-blooded aggression of bullies who prey on vulnerable kids. Of those who participated in the Roots program, 88 percent decreased this form of behavior over the school year, while in the control group, only 9 percent did, and many actually increased it. Schonert-Reichl has reproduced these findings with fourth to seventh grade children in a randomized controlled trial. She also found that Roots produced significant drops in “relational aggression” – things like gossiping, excluding others, and backstabbing. Research also found a sharp increase in children’s parenting knowledge.

“Empathy can’t be taught, but it can be caught,” Gordon often says – and not just by children. “Programmatically my biggest surprise was that not only did empathy increase in children, but it increased in their teachers,” she added. “And that, to me, was glorious, because teachers hold such sway over children.”..."


Read more about it here.

November 10, 2010 8:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

GREAT learning of empathy! Now, if we get adults to have the same empathy for pre-born babies, we'll REALLY get somewhere! Instead of stopping bullying, we'll be stopping murder. WHEW!

In Bea's article, they note that every baby comes into the world with a different temperament. According to the pro-aborts, I wonder when this temperament develops- the minute they breathe air? Or could they have a temperament BEFORE they take their first breath?

November 10, 2010 10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cynthia.
Where did you put the insulation ?
Apparently putting it in the rafters is a really bad idea.
I did over the garage that way, was considering doing over the attic, my husband refused to help since he said it doesn't do any good there...

I did some research and came to the same conclusion !

Also don't stick the insulation in the soffits !

Theresa

November 10, 2010 1:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Insulation should be placed right up against living spaces of a home.

Theresa's husband is right. Insulating under the roof of a home's unfinished attic is ineffective at reducing heat loss through the ceilings of living spaces below that attic.

Cynthia is also right because a crawlspace is beneath living space so insulating immediately below the floor of living space will be effective. Crawlspaces are located below living spaces, but attics are located above living space.

See http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/insulation/fig1.html for a diagram that shows the proper placement of insulation in a home.

November 10, 2010 6:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What some religious types define as "murder," is what the majority of Americans define as "reproductive rights."

Here's the latest example of a vote that demonstrates that majority view. On election day 2010, Colorado voters once again refused to amend the State Constitution to redefine the pre-born as "persons." Amendment 62, which sought constitutional rights for individuals "at the beginning of biological development," lost by a 3-to-1 margin, the same margin as a 2008 vote on a nearly identical State Constitutional Amendment.

November 10, 2010 6:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What some religious types define as "murder," is what the majority of Americans define as "reproductive rights.""

actually, polls show that the majority of Americans are pro-life

November 10, 2010 7:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm as pro-life as they come, but I see no reason why the name "fetus" has to be changed to "person." Everyone should simply know that a fetus is a life and should not be destroyed.

A fetus needs to be protected by his or her mother.

November 10, 2010 9:05 PM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

Anonymous rationalizes,

What some religious types define as "murder," is what the majority of Americans define as "reproductive rights."

Here's the latest example of a vote that demonstrates that majority view. On election day 2010, Colorado voters once again refused to amend the State Constitution to redefine the pre-born as "persons." Amendment 62, which sought constitutional rights for individuals "at the beginning of biological development," lost by a 3-to-1 margin, the same margin as a 2008 vote on a nearly identical State Constitutional Amendment.


Interesting line of reasoning..."a majority of Americans"...well, a majority of Germans once thought it perfectly fine to...do I really need to finish that sentence?

While abortion is clearly NOT murder (especially since murder is a legal classification and finding of fact in a court of law, it most certainly is the destruction of human life.

For me the bottom line is this: nascent human life ought to have legal protections extended to it(such as due process) that is the same as we extend to convicted murderers, including the murderer of Dr. George Tiller.

November 10, 2010 10:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"A fetus needs to be protected by his or her mother."

Pregnant pre-teens should learn to make lemonade from the lemons life has handed them no matter if that lemon was created immaculately or incestuously or inconveniently.

November 11, 2010 8:43 AM  
Anonymous svelte_brunette said...

Orin and Theresa,

I did not complete my insulation project yet, there is a LOT left to do. I have some comments about that as well as tiling, but right now I have to rendezvous with one of my coworkers who had alternator troubles late yesterday afternoon.

Peace,

Cynthia

November 11, 2010 10:06 AM  
Blogger Hazumu Osaragi said...

Yes, there is a homosexual agenda.

But lesbians, gays and transgenders are not the ones who are pushing it.

They're not the ones who are formulating it, developing it, focus-group-testing it, spreading it or implementing it.

The homosexual agenda is owned and operated by NOM, NARTH, FRC, AFTAH, FOTF and other anti-gay groups and the mobs that follow them.

November 11, 2010 11:40 AM  
Anonymous David S. Fishback said...

Check out these letters to the NY Times in response to the article Jim discusses:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/opinion/l11bully.html?ref=opinion

November 11, 2010 2:42 PM  
Anonymous buh-bye said...

Listen to the alarm,
listen to the bell,
as the last fire truck
pulls into hell,

all good people are prayin'

It's the last temptation,
the last account,
the last time you'll ever hear the sermon on the mount,

the last record's playin'

and it's too late for me to say
the things,

they needed to hear someone say

I saw a shooting star, tonight.

So quickly fade away.

November 11, 2010 8:34 PM  
Anonymous svelte_brunette said...

Orin wrote:

“I hope the project got completed...I am hiring a tile setter to put in a tile back splash in my kitchen (I've already replaced the cheap, 10 year old countertops with granite and had the cabinets painted). Home improvement projects are a chore even when one has the money to hire someone to do some/all of the work.”

Well Orin, despite an enthusiastic start, I am currently on hold for my insulation project. When I opened up the plastic last weekend the paper facing on the insulation included a note indicating that it had to be covered by an appropriate material in order to “meet code,” and they suggested sheet rock. Undeterred, I went ahead and stapled up about 50 sq ft up into the joists of my crawl space, figuring I’d go back to the store this weekend and ask about suitable covering material.

For some background, my house was built in the mid 1970’s, and the 3” of un-faced insulation that’s in there now is getting loose and starting to come down in a few places, leaving parts of the sub-floor to my living room exposed. The 6.5” kraft-faced (R-19) insulation I was installing fit the remainder of the 9” joists perfectly, and I figured the staples would keep it up far better than the old wires used to keep the original fiberglass in place.

After talking to a couple of guys at the home store today though, I need to do some more homework. Neither of them was familiar with the “codes” I need to meet, and one of them was concerned about the paper on my insulation facing the unheated crawlspace due to potential moisture problems. He suggested a couple of websites for me to check out, so I’ll be doing that later rather than more insulating. I don’t want to build in a potential mold and mildew problem.

Obviously if I had hired a bonded contractor for this I wouldn’t have had to worry about all those picky little details, as he should be aware of all the codes and know what to do already. However, I can be excruciatingly frugal, and for relatively simple jobs, I can’t pass up the opportunity to save a few hundred bucks. As you probably know, I’m also an engineer, so I enjoy fixing and building things myself. A few years after moving into my house, the need arose to do some minor plumbing repair. So I went to the home store, pick up a book on plumbing, then all the supplies necessary to solder copper pipe together, and taught myself how to plumb. It’s probably saved me over $1,500 in pluming repairs over the years, and so far, none of my soldered joints have failed. Compression unions though, I’m having a harder time with!

November 13, 2010 5:15 PM  
Anonymous svelte_brunette said...

Tile and stone are beautiful building materials, and I’m sure your kitchen looks far better now. With the help of a contractor I re-modeled one of my bathrooms to include a heated whirlpool tub. Knowing how much moisture they spawn, we tiled the entire floor and all the walls. To this day, I’ve had ZERO moisture problems there. One helpful tip I came up with during that time: when starting a line of tiles on a wall, screw in an aluminum “L” bracket along the bottom to provide a ledge for the first line of tile (make sure it’s level of course). This will provide a perfectly straight line of tile to get you started. The rest will fall into place nicely. Tiling is relatively easy and can even be fun if you don’t have to cut and nip a lot of pieces. Lugging around the heavy boxes can be a chore though!

Theresa asked:

“Where did you put the insulation ?
Apparently putting it in the rafters is a really bad idea.
I did over the garage that way, was considering doing over the attic, my husband refused to help since he said it doesn't do any good there...

I did some research and came to the same conclusion !

Also don't stick the insulation in the soffits !”

As noted above, I was placing the insulation between the floor joists below my dining and living rooms. The crawl space is only about 3.5” high in most places, and has a dirt floor, so it’s not the most pleasant of places to work. I got a lot of bruises on my knees and elbows last week. 

By “rafters” I assume you mean the underside of the sloped part of the external roof. I have never insulated that, and I imagine that would only help on the very hottest and coldest days when there is no wind, since the attic area is open to the outside via the soffits.

I have however, insulated the floor of the attic (the other side of the ceiling to my rooms in the house). The original insulation there was the “blown-in” paper type that had settled to about 1” thick. I installed some un-faced fiberglass R-38. That stuff poofs up to over 1 foot thick! Before adding that, my house would warm up to the outside temperature in about 2 hours. Since then, it now takes about 6 to 8 hours. Obviously it’s made a HUGE difference in the thermal time constant of my house. This is good, because I have electric baseboard heat.

I don’t expect that insulating the crawlspace will make nearly as much of a difference. However, it should at least triple the overall insulation rating in that area. At a cost of roughly $200, if it gives me a 10% reduction in my electric bill, it will take less than 5 years to pay for itself. If it’s only a 5% reduction, it will take closer to 10 years, but that’s still worth it.

November 13, 2010 5:16 PM  
Anonymous svelte_brunette said...

Last weekend wasn’t a total loss though, as I filled in the holes around the dryer vents. One was from the laundry room into the crawl space – the builder just cut a big hole in the concrete blocks and shoved the vent pipe through. The little metal trim piece didn’t do much to block air flow, so I filled up the hole with the insulation from my last water heater blanket. Surprise! The laundry room is noticeably warmer now! I also used some spray foam insulation around the pipe to the outside – this will keep freezing cold air from blowing directly on to my water heater. I also placed a new blanket on my new water heater.

Well, I need to do some searching around the DIY sites and see what the best way is to deal with my crawlspace.

I hope everyone is staying warm!

Have a nice day,

Cynthia

November 13, 2010 5:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The vapor barrier should cover the bare ground inside the crawlspace and the crawlspace should be ventilated to the exterior. Both measures will help to cut down on moisture that might wick up from the ground and potentially cause rot to the floor joists (or ceiling rafters) above.

See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4Ik47MunmY

November 14, 2010 10:10 AM  
Anonymous svelte_brunette said...

Well Anon, I actually stumbled across that video (and several similar ones) Saturday afternoon while I was doing my research. I must say it was a bit disheartening… I had prepared myself for all the hassles of installing insulation and some protective trim, but I had not planned on installing a vapor barrier and several hundred pounds of sand and / or gravel. 

I’ve found no evidence that there ever was a vapor barrier down there – I don’t know if it’s because that wasn’t required back then or the builder was just lazy.

There’s no doubt a vapor barrier will probably be a noticeable benefit. However, after blizzard ’93, and on one other occasion (after blizzard ’96?) the crawl space flooded. I’ve since had a small pump down there (mainly to drain overflow from the water softener) but I figured if it flooded again the little pump would at least try and get the water out – at least until it got clogged up with dirt.

So it’s not just a vapor barrier I need to think about installing, but a sump pump and a way to keep dirt out of it should it flood again. Geez, and all I wanted to do was insulate!

It was more than I could handle in one weekend, so I got some Ben and Jerry’s Mud Pie Ice Cream. Hopefully I’ll be in better shape next weekend.

Peace,

Cynthia

November 15, 2010 12:40 AM  

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