Age and the Maryland Marriage Referendum
The Silver Spring Patch makes some pretty good observations here about the upcoming referendum on marriage equality.
So anyone in the boomer generation who supports the right of gay and lesbian couples to marry has undergone an attitude change -- and there are a lot of us! The change in status of the LGBT population is an amazing story of social evolution. It comprises a large component of learning, rethinking, discarding inappropriate beliefs, and personal growth. Plus it's true, today's young people have an entirely fresh, new, and tolerant view of sexual orientation; the tide has turned.
Based on Maryland's age distribution and a changing national attitude on same sex marriage, one could expect–surprise–a close referendum fight in November.Actually, it is a combination of attitude change and generational replacement. I am of the boomer generation, and when we were growing up there was no debate about same-sex marriage. Nobody thought about it or considered it. Even gay people did not think of marrying in the middle of the century. In the 1970s there were a few cases where same-sex couples married, in the absence of any law saying they couldn't, before anybody thought to oppose it.
Earlier this week, you may have read that increasing acceptance of same-sex marriage is not the result of a nationwide change of heart, but because those opposed tend to be older and are literally dying off.
A study by the Pew Forum on Religious and Public Life found that the increase of acceptance for same-sex marriage is the result of changing, aging demographics and "generational replacement," defined by Pew as "the arrival of younger, more supportive generations making up a larger share of the population."
Nationally, 48 percent of Americans support same-sex marriage, up from 35 percent in 2001, according to Pew. Among those born after 1981, the so-called millenial generation, 63 percent support same-sex marriage. Fifty-two percent of generation X-ers support gay marriage. Support drops precipitously from there. Only a third of their silent-generation grandparents do, and only 41 percent of the baby boomer parents of most millenials support same-sex marriage. Age, Same-Sex Marriage and Maryland
So anyone in the boomer generation who supports the right of gay and lesbian couples to marry has undergone an attitude change -- and there are a lot of us! The change in status of the LGBT population is an amazing story of social evolution. It comprises a large component of learning, rethinking, discarding inappropriate beliefs, and personal growth. Plus it's true, today's young people have an entirely fresh, new, and tolerant view of sexual orientation; the tide has turned.
So, what does this mean for Maryland's upcoming referendum on legalizing same-sex marriage?So, in a nutshell, younger citizens are more likely to approve marriage equality, and less likely to actually vote. You know what you have to do.
Well, consider that the bell curve of the voting age population in Maryland heavily skews towards a younger population. The Census Bureau tabulates ages in five-year ranges that don't exactly match up with the generational cohorts used by Pew's statisticians, but it is close enough for approximation.
With that in mind, note that 41.7 percent of Maryland's population fell between the ages of 20 and 49, roughly corresponding to the millenial and generation-X cohorts, the two cohorts most likely to support same-sex marriage.
Baby boomers and their silent-generation parents, cohorts significantly more conservative on same-sex marriage, make up only 31.9 percent of the state's population.
But, of course, the only important number is how many people in the respective generations actually vote.
In 2008, Maryland's millenials made up more than 20 percent of the state's population but only accounted for 17 percent of its registered voters, according to a fact sheet from the Center for Information and Research on Civil Learning and Engagement (CIRCLE). Of those youngest registered voters, only 56 percent voted in the 2008 presidential election, up 6 points from 2004.
Baby boomers and the elderly tend to turn out in much greater numbers. State level data is hard to come by, but according to the Census Bureau's 2008 Voting Hot Report, more than 60 percent of voters aged 50 and up voted in the last presidential election.
Based on those statistics, we're back where we started: A close vote.
posted by JimK at 10:24 AM
76 Comments:
the youth vote will be down significantly from 2008 so this analysis is flawed
the negative Obama history has made them apathetic
there is also likely to be a National Harbor casino approval measure on the ballot, driving certain elements to the voting booth who will tend to skew pro-family
additionally, opposition to gay marriage tends to encourage more passion than support of it
those youth asked by pollsters about gay marriage are "like, totally dude!"
but it's unlikely an issue that will get them out of bed in the morning, much less to the voting booth
oh well, doesn't look like deviant "marriage" is coming to Maryland
the president of GLAAD has moderated his position and, I for one, agree with him, assuming his assumption his correct and Cathy doesn't know any gay people
"ATLANTA (AP) — Gay rights activists and other gay marriage supporters are planning a "Kiss In" at Chick-fil-A restaurants to protest the fast-food chain owners' opposition to same-sex unions.
The protests Friday come two days after hordes of customers swamped the restaurant to show their support during an "Appreciation Day." Chick-fil-A says it set a one-day sales record on Wednesday.
The flap began last month when Chick-fil-A president Dan Cathy told a religious publication that he backs "the biblical definition of a family."
Herndon Graddick, the president of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, says Cathy has every right to voice his opinion but he should get to know the people that he's speaking out against."
and, Herndon, you should go in and get a peach shake after making out
and let's remember last year's kiss-in: no grinding or simulated stuff
Nobody's constitutional rights have been threatened. Of course local authorities have the right to determine what kind of businesses they will allow in their community. They can stop them whether it is Wal-Mart or a strip joint or just a gay-hatin' little chicken palace. The Big Chicken has the constitutional right to say whatever he believes, and the rest of us have the right to switch to a different fast-food restaurant.
"Nobody's constitutional rights have been threatened"
actually, they were
and the fact that homosexuals don't see that says a lot about the problem with the gay agenda
"Of course local authorities have the right to determine what kind of businesses they will allow in their community"
not if the basis of that determination is the religious beliefs of the owner or what faith-based organizations he financially supports
then, the local authorities have violated the owner's constitutional rights
there is no indication or allegation that any Chik-fil-A has discriminated in serving, employing or buying from any known or suspected homosexuals
indeed, from the evidence of the last couple of weeks, there is every indication the business is anxious to engage in financial transactions with homosexuals
their owner, however, believes that marriage is comprised of two individuals with one from each gender
the public officials who threatened Chik-fil-A are trying to win votes from the gay community, a community with a lot of time on its hands, and should be impeached
"They can stop them whether it is Wal-Mart or a strip joint or just a gay-hatin' little chicken palace"
we'll see about that
my guess is the Constitution will endure
"The Big Chicken has the constitutional right to say whatever he believes, and the rest of us have the right to switch to a different fast-food restaurant"
this statement is true and no one disputes it
individuals can discriminate based on religion but governments can'thj
although, you may eventually find that you've marginalized yourself if you try to boycott every business whose owner believes in marriage
remember, most Americans believe in this and businesses are generally owned by older individuals
"As an untold number of people streamed to Chick-fil-A on Wednesday to show their support for free speech, marriage and traditional values, talk show host Rush Limbaugh predicted on his radio program that they are likely to show up in equal droves at the polls in November.
"There is an explosion waiting to happen in this country. People are fed up, and this is a sign," he said. "I'll tell you what's gonna happen on November 6. Obama's gonna get Chick-fil-A'd himself.""
yes, gays are their own worst enemy
let's hope they schedule gay pride parades, with Sir Barry invited, in every swing state in November
"Westboro Baptist Church protesters will soon be severely limited in their ability to disrupt military funerals, after Congress passed a sweeping veterans bill this week that includes restrictions on such demonstrations.
According to "The Honoring America’s Veterans and Caring for Camp Lejeune Families Act of 2012," which is now headed to President Barack Obama's desk, demonstrators will no longer be allowed to picket military funerals two hours before or after a service. The bill also requires protestors to be at least 300 feet away from grieving family members.
This aspect of the legislation was introduced by Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), who, at the urging of a teenage constituent, proposed new limitations on military funeral demonstrations as a response to a 2011 Supreme Court case that ruled such actions were protected under the First Amendment.
In the wake of that decision, many have turned to counter-protest efforts to block Westboro Baptist Church's disruptive and insensitive displays, which frequently suggest that U.S. soldiers have been killed as God's vengeance for gay tolerance.
[Chick fil-A CEO, Dan Cathy said, “I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say ‘we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about."]
Thousands turned out in Missouri last month, forming a "human wall" around a church where the service for a fallen soldier was being held.
Earlier in July, hundreds of Texas A&M students showed up in a similar effort, joining together to create a barrier between Westboro Baptist Church members and a military funeral.
And while not at a specific service, a group of demonstrators dressed as zombies gathered at a military base in Washington last month, far outnumbering and overshadowing followers of the far-right congregation.
The bill also contains a variety of measures meant to address veterans health, benefits, housing and education. Obama is expected to sign to the legislation later this month."
ha, ha
you always know TTF is losing an argument when they bring up Westboro
this small group of strange people think they make some kind of statement by disrupting funeral services of people who aren't gay
hope the new legislation works to keep them from disturbing the peace at these solemn events
still, this has nothing to do with Chik-fil-A
but your insertion of a blurp about that in your post was a nice concession by you that you have lost the argument on Chik-fil-A
thanks for conceding
the saddest story was on the news about a couple of gay girls standing outside in the swelter at a Chik-fil-A in Fairfax City holding tiny signs about how the restaurant is filled with hate and looking worn down
contrast with the enthusiastic hordes on Wednesday celebrating free speech and God's design for marriage
then, the manager came out and asked them if they needed any water because it was so hot
yeah, these homosexual advocacy groups really put the hurt on Chik-fil-A for donating to churches
The White House is really getting specific when it comes to the unemployment rate.
Rather than 8.3% -- the rounded-up figure -- Obama economic adviser Alan Krueger writes on the White House website that the real jobless rate is 8.254%.
We doubt that Republican Mitt Romney and his allies will draw that distinction.
"Today's increase in the unemployment rate is a hammer blow to struggling middle-class families," Romney said in a statement.
Other GOP members mocked Krueger for declaring the jobless rate at 8.254%.
Republican Party spokeswoman Kirsten Kukowski said, "23 million people struggling for work isn't a rounding error. And the White House's attempts to argue show just how out of touch they are."
SUN VALLEY, Idaho -- Clint Eastwood just made Mitt Romney's day.
The "Dirty Harry" star and Oscar-winning director of "Unforgiven" and "Million Dollar Baby" endorsed the Republican presidential candidate Friday night during a Sun Valley fundraiser.
"I think the country needs a boost," Eastwood told The Associated Press.
In February, Eastwood told Fox News that he wasn't supporting any politician at that time. Some saw the "halftime in America" ad he made for the Super Bowl as a nod toward President Barack Obama. Eastwood responded then by saying he was not "politically affiliated" with the president.
"Now more than ever do we need Gov. Romney. I'm going to be voting for him," Eastwood told Romney supporters Friday night.
"He just made my day," Romney said. "What a guy."
Standing at Romney's side, Eastwood said he was filming "Mystic River" in Massachusetts almost a decade ago when he first saw political advertisements featuring Romney, who was running for governor at the time.
"I said, God, this guy, he's too handsome to be governor, but he does look like he could be president," Eastwood joked. "As the years have gone by I began to think even more so about that."
Eastwood, 82, said he hoped Romney would restore "a decent tax system that we need badly ... so that there's a fairness and people are not pitted against one another as who's paying taxes and who isn't."
Romney has also earned the endorsement of Oscar-winning actor Jon Voight and rock star Kid Rock.
"the saddest story was on the news"
It sure is sad. After all those debates, campaign appearances, and TV ads, even before he blew sharing his AngloSaxonness with Great Britons, Pew Research Center found Romney's Personal Image Remains Negative
"By a 52% to 37% margin, more voters say they have an unfavorable than favorable view of Mitt Romney. The poll, conducted prior to Romney’s recent overseas trip, represents the sixth consecutive survey over the past nine months in which his image has been in negative territory. While Romney’s personal favorability improved substantially between March and June – as Republican voters rallied behind him after the primary season ended– his image has again slipped over the past month."...
Why don't the majority of Americans like Romney? I'm guessing it's his sense of entitlement, his sense that the rules that apply to most Americans do not apply to him.
For example:
"Mitt Romney insisted on Friday that he has paid taxes every year and repeated that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) needs "to put up or shut up" with his accusations."
Typical Mitt. Reid has to put up or shut up, but Mitt doesn't. Apparently Mitt thinks he has shown "you people" otherwise known as the American electorate, enough of his tax forms, one single year to date.
""The fact is, no one likes the guy or believes in him," said the campaign manager for a former Romney rival, who declined to be quoted by name because his former boss is on record supporting Romney's campaign against incumbent President Barack Obama.
"Look back at our 2008 primaries," he said. "Who did all the other candidates dislike? Romney. Look at this year. Who did all the other candidates dislike? Romney. No one wants Obama to win, but no one likes the guy who is running against him."
Republican leaders, especially conservatives, see Romney as a malleable, cynical power-grabber without principle or compass. They warned voters that Romney would be unable to take the fight to Obama on health care because he had fostered a similar program as governor of Massachusetts, and they argued that a wealthy, well-connected son of privilege was not a good spokesman for selling free-market ideas to the middle-class.
Over the last week, a disparate array of Republican and conservative leaders have called on Romney to do what he is clearly loath to do: release several years if not a decade or more of his federal tax returns. It is an unspoken form of payback."
...Normally, defeated primary rivals quickly fall in line behind the strategy and message of the winning candidate. In this crucial case, Romney's former rivals have done just the opposite on what Romney has made clear is a crucial issue.
Equally noteworthy are the party leaders and pundits who have left the Romney Alamo. They include former party chairs Haley Barbour and Michael Steele, and pundits George Will, David Frum, the editors of National Review and, to a degree, the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal.
As if to add insult to injury, the GOP's 2008 standard-bearer, Sen. John McCain, said on Tuesday that he had picked former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate because she was the best candidate for the job -- a sock to the jaw to Romney, who had been on McCain's veep list."
Ooff!
Clint's in great company with another actor who has endorsed Romney, porn star Jenna Jameson.
""I'm very looking forward to a Republican being back in office," Jameson told a KCBS-TV reporter, champagne in hand. "When you're rich, you want a Republican in office."
But don’t expect the star of “I Dream of Jenna” and “Zombie Strippers” to make an appearance at the Republican National Convention after that nod.
Family values aside, Romney has been trying to fight President Obama’s claims that his policies will boost the rich at the expense of the middle-class."
"It sure is sad. After all those debates, campaign appearances, and TV ads, even before he blew sharing his AngloSaxonness with Great Britons, Pew Research Center found Romney's Personal Image Remains Negative"
actually, the sad thing being referred to was the pathetically meager response of the gay community to the call from lunatic fringe advocacy groups to protest Chik-fil-A
could it be that gays actually don't care about changing the definition of marriage and this is just being pumped up by advocacy groups in a time where gays really don't have much to complain about?
they are tolerated and included and what more can anyone ask for?
"By a 52% to 37% margin, more voters say they have an unfavorable than favorable view of Mitt Romney."
personally, I'm not wild about him myself but the alternative is the demise of America as we know it
the amazing thing is that, even though he is not well liked, he is running neck and neck with the incumbent, who has spent a significant portion of his campaign treasury early trying to create negative scuttlebutt about Romney
truth is Romney's not such a bad guy and the image Obama is trying to create may backfire
people may resent the rich but in November they will be looking for someone who knows how to turn a profit
Romney performed very well in debates during the primaries and I'm sure Obama will try to minimize or get out of debating this fall, if at all possible
no can do
"Why don't the majority of Americans like Romney? I'm guessing it's his sense of entitlement, his sense that the rules that apply to most Americans do not apply to him."
he doesn't have that sense so why would anyone think it?
"Typical Mitt. Reid has to put up or shut up, but Mitt doesn't."
why would Mitt have to put up? he hasn't made any false allegations against anyone
Reid has and no one believes him
"Apparently Mitt thinks he has shown "you people" otherwise known as the American electorate, enough of his tax forms, one single year to date."
why should he release any more than this year's and last year's?
so Obama can comb through them and make more lies to divert attention from his dismal record?
because that's what he done with the information he does have
"...Normally, defeated primary rivals quickly fall in line behind the strategy and message of the winning candidate. In this crucial case, Romney's former rivals have done just the opposite on what Romney has made clear is a crucial issue."
well, Romney has made clear he's not releasing his past decade of tax return but hasn't said anything about it being crucial
and while many have advised him to release them, they have fallen in line in virtually every other sense
"As if to add insult to injury, the GOP's 2008 standard-bearer, Sen. John McCain, said on Tuesday that he had picked former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate because she was the best candidate for the job -- a sock to the jaw to Romney, who had been on McCain's veep list."
oh wow
the guy that lost the last election didn't think Romney was the best candidate
yet, if he was so smart, he'd be president now
like Romney will be
August 04, 2012 2:30 PM
Anonymous said...
Clint's in great company with another actor who has endorsed Romney, porn star Jenna Jameson.
""I'm very looking forward to a Republican being back in office," Jameson told a KCBS-TV reporter, champagne in hand. "When you're rich, you want a Republican in office."
But don’t expect the star of “I Dream of Jenna” and “Zombie Strippers” to make an appearance at the Republican National Convention after that nod.
Family values aside, Romney has been trying to fight President Obama’s claims that his policies will boost the rich at the expense of the middle-class."
This did not start last month when Dan Cathy made some comments about marriage. Chik-fil-A has donated substantial amount of money to anti-gay hate groups and ex-gay groups for years. For Cathy, as for many people, it's not really about marriage; that's just a talking point.
I wonder how many of those people buying chicken were divorced.
I was at the Chik-fil-A in Silver Spring tonight. The line was out the door to be treated hospitably to some great food. At what other fast food place do the employees come to your table and ask you if you'd like a refill on your drink?
Yeah, that gay boycott will have a lasting effect.
It will move them up to the next tier with all the additional profits coming their way.
"This did not start last month when Dan Cathy made some comments about marriage. Chik-fil-A has donated substantial amount of money to anti-gay hate groups and ex-gay groups for years."
Yes, Robo, but you've donated sunstantial time to pro-gay groups for yours. Would you like it if you were banned and boycotted?
"For Cathy, as for many people, it's not really about marriage; that's just a talking point."
He was asked a question and answered honestly, you idiot.
Gays are the ones who decided to attack him for his stand on marriage. Chik-fil-A employs and serves gays. He is, however, a Christian believer who has a correct view of the scriptural perspective on homosexuality.
Face it: homosexual lunatic fringe advocates thought it was an opportune moment to try and start a ruckus over something that is nothing new, hoping to intimidate anyone who dares to speak against homosexuality.
They badly miscalculated.
"I wonder how many of those people buying chicken were divorced."
That's irrelevant. What's interesting is how many are gay.
No public officials have taken any action against Chik-fil-A, and none will. Nor do I think they should. It's just talk, and unwise talk at that. I agree with you on this (are those winged pigs that I see?).
Romney released two years of tax returns, 2010 and 2011.
Obama released twelve years of tax returns, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011.
All of these individual income tax returns are posted at Tax History Project: Presidential Tax Returns
In the disclosure of personal finances, President Obama beats Romney 12-2. What is Romney hiding that his tax returns from 2000-2009 would reveal?
"No public officials have taken any action against Chik-fil-A, and none will. Nor do I think they should. It's just talk, and unwise talk at that. I agree with you on this (are those winged pigs that I see?)."
i've got nothing to say to you, Robo, after you failed to show up for our meeting at Chik-fil-A on Wednesday
"Romney released two years of tax returns, 2010 and 2011."
something that will still be true three months from now
"Obama released twelve years of tax returns, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011."
before he started exploited his position, they were pretty boring
just because he filed tax returns doesn't mean they're right
he probably didn't include his profits from drug trafficking as a "community organizer"
actually, there is no way to tell if the returns he released were the actual returns he filed
he forged his birth certificate, why not this?
"All of these individual income tax returns are posted at Tax History Project: Presidential Tax Returns"
correction: all his ALLEGED tax returns
"In the disclosure of personal finances, President Obama beats Romney 12-2."
it's not a contest
"What is Romney hiding that his tax returns from 2000-2009 would reveal?"
probably tons of stuff
privacy of these tax returns is his right as a citizen
since you disagree, when will you be releasing yours?
you know, I'd rather see Obama's college transcripts than his tax returns
Americans have a right to know how a dumb bunny like him got into Harvard law school
also, it'd be nice to see his application to college and see what country of origin he was claiming since the promotional materials for his first book said he was from Kenya
it's odd how few people from Obama's past remember him
once we find out about his past, it's also be nice to learn about his plans for the future
what is planning to be flexible about after the election, as he promised Vladimir Putin?
and could he give us some idea what his plan is for economic recovery?
a little relevant disclosure by Obama could be very helpful!!
"A federal judge on Friday rejected a request made by lawyers acting on behalf of House Republicans that the court delay a DOMA challenge where a disabled war veteran is contesting the law’s block on equal spousal disability benefits.
Reports SF Gate:
U.S. District Judge Consuelo Marshall of Los Angeles denied a stay in a brief order Friday. She did not spell out her reasoning but said she had considered all pertinent factors, including the harm that a delay might cause.
That harm amounts to $124 a month that the law is costing former Army Sgt. Tracey Cooper-Harris in disability benefits, her lawyers said.
Cooper Harris v. United States is a lawsuit filed by the Southern Poverty Law Center on behalf of Iraq and Afghanistan veteran Tracey Cooper-Harris. The suit challenges the denial of equal disability benefits for Harris’ same-sex spouse.
BLAG, lawyers acting on behalf of the Republican House leadership, wanted a delay until the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals had decided the case of Karen Golinski, a federal worker challenging DOMA’s ban on spousal benefits, arguing that they were substantially similar and that the more advanced case, that might have implications for the Cooper-Harris case, should take priority.
However, Judge Marshall’s order rejected this, pointing out the cognizable monetary cost to any such delay.
BLAG, rather controversially, is also defending the military’s Section 101(3), (31) of Title 38, related to military benefits, even though no formal vote was held on whether the House should defend this aspect of the military code, something that Democratic lawmakers have decried.
Cooper-Harris, currently a resident of Pasadena, was stationed in Kyrgyzstan and Kuwait during her time on active duty. She was highly decorated, receiving in excess of 24 medals and commendations during her 12 years of service. Since discharge in 2003, Cooper-Harris has continued to suffer with a number of health issues, including post-traumatic stress disorder. She was diagnosed in 2010 with multiple sclerosis, which the government has acknowledged is connected to her military service."
BORING
Ann Coulter on Sunday argued that comments made by Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy "wasn't an anti-gay thing."
"He said, look, all the founders of this company are married to our first wives," she said on a political roundtable during ABC's 'This Week'. "It's genuinely a pro-marriage position to oppose gay marriage."
Chick-fil-A has come under fire from gay advocacy groups for revelations that the company donated millions to groups that oppose gay preferences.
“We’re inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at him and say we know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage," Cathy had said.
Gay rights advocates called for a boycott of the fast food chain.
Coulter on Sunday also weighed in recent polls that show a dramatic increase in support for same-sex marriage.
"When you see crowds like that coming out to support Chick-fil-A, no, I'm sorry, I don't believe the polls on gay marriage. Let us vote. Those polls I don't believe, and it makes me suspicious at the polls on the presidential election."
An unnamed source told me the never married Ann Coulter is now dating her unnamed Kenyan source.
must be the same source that told Harry Reid that Mitt Romney hasn't paid taxes for ten years
in other words, a real nowhere man
Evidently the chief complaint against Reid — aside from aggressiveness unbecoming a Democrat — is that he cited “an extremely credible source” who he has so far declined to name. Some journalists have gone so far as to suggest that Reid must be lying because he won’t identify the source.
Despite all this righteous tut-tutting among the great and the good, in newspapers and magazines as well as on television, Reid’s critics simply have no way of knowing whether he is telling the truth or not. From the beginning, Reid himself admitted forthrightly that he has no way of being absolutely certain whether what he was told is factual or not, although he believes the person who said it was being truthful.
Many of Reid’s critics work for news outlets that rely on unnamed sources every day, of course, publishing assertions that range from the mundane to the outlandish. It is hard to see why an unnamed source quoted by a daily newspaper or a monthly magazine – or hidden behind a screen in a TV studio – is more credible than a person whispering in the ear of a United States Senator.
Meanwhile Romney’s response is to demand that Reid “put up or shut up” – that is, reveal the name of his source. But that would prove nothing. As Reid has pointed out, only the former Bain executive can demonstrate conclusively that suspicions about his tax history are unfounded. Although the irritated Romney retorts that he has “paid a lot of taxes,” his denial won’t suffice as proof either. He could have paid hefty real estate taxes on his various homes and sales taxes on his purchases of cars, car elevators, powerboats, and other luxury goods, among other levies, while paying little or no federal income tax.
There is a legal doctrine that applies to Romney’s current behavior and it doesn’t place the burden of proof on Reid:
At law, if a person in control of evidence refuses to produce the evidence, then the jury is instructed that there is a presumption that the evidence would be against the party failing to produce. It is called the “Missing Evidence” instruction.
The missing evidence is in Romney’s grasp, yet he insists that he will never produce it. Does anyone need instruction from a judge to make the correct inference?
"From the beginning, Reid himself admitted forthrightly that he has no way of being absolutely certain whether what he was told is factual or not, although he believes the person who said it was being truthful"
and if he didn't know that why would he repeat it?
irresponsible behavior from an elected official
btw, I've been told be an extremely credible source that Obama smokes pot in the White House
"Meanwhile Romney’s response is to demand that Reid “put up or shut up” – that is, reveal the name of his source. But that would prove nothing."
so, now, anyone who wants to violate someone's privacy should feel free to lie and dare them to disprove it
"As Reid has pointed out, only the former Bain executive can demonstrate conclusively that suspicions about his tax history are unfounded."
that's actually true
another aspect here is that there is no reason to believe anyone other than Romney and his CPA knows anything about his taxes
another reason it is irresponsible for the lying Reid to repeat it
"At law, if a person in control of evidence refuses to produce the evidence, then the jury is instructed that there is a presumption that the evidence would be against the party failing to produce. It is called the “Missing Evidence” instruction.
The missing evidence is in Romney’s grasp, yet he insists that he will never produce it. Does anyone need instruction from a judge to make the correct inference?"
no, they don't because Romney is not on trial nor accused of any crime
and, at this point, he seems to be getting away with not disclosing ten years of tax returns
his poll numbers haven't changed since Reid lied about this
another Dem miscalculation
Wow, that's a whole raft of lame excuses for Mitt's "Missing Evidence." Hardworking Americans, AKA "you people," are sick of him. Mitt should take his own advice and "put up or shut up!"
You've been laying off Rasmussen Reports polling more interesting results lately, Anon. I guess they're stuck in your craw, like Mitt's tax returns are stuck in his.
Here they are:
"Partisan Trends
GOP Edge in Partisan ID Slips to 2012 Low
Wednesday, August 01, 2012
The number of Americans who consider themselves Republicans fell for the second straight month while the number of Democrats held steady.
During July, 34.9% of Americans considered themselves Republicans. That’s down from 35.4% in June and from 35.7% in May."
===============
"Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Monday, August 06, 2012
President Obama appears to be enjoying a bounce in the polls following last Friday’s jobs report.
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows President Obama attracting 47% of the vote, while Mitt Romney earns support from 45%."
wow, sounds like a landslide
if you think Obama can win by whining about Romney's taxes from now until November, just relax
we'll take care of the country for you
btw, I've heard from a very reliable source that Reid cruises male rest rooms
oh, never mind
that him part of a protected class, doesn't it?
Hopefully once Mitt looks at his tax forms he'll learn he didn't pay income taxes for 10 years just like you will learn about the continued shift toward Obama once you look at the polls.
Oh brother! You and Mitt like to dig your holes to hide in deep!
"Obama can win by whining about Romney's taxes"
Obama hasn't said a word about Romney's taxes. Prove it to yourself and try to find a quote of Obama whining about it.
Even FOX NEWS reports White House says Reid 'speaks for himself' on disputed Romney tax claim
you guys do realize that despite repeated requests from reporters, Harry Reid has not made his tax returns public, right?
I've heard he doesn't pay any tax
I'm Barack Obama and I approved these lies about Mitt Romney
Reid says a source told him Romney paid no tax but he won't identify this person
why?
what is Reid trying to hide?
has he, like Obama, been pallin' around with terrorists?
that's what I heard
here's some wisdom from an elder statesman:
"Former Vice President Dick Cheney criticized President Barack Obama and said it was crucial to help elect Mitt Romney, for whom he held a recent fundraiser at his home in Jackson Hole, Wyo.
"I think he's been a terrible president," he said on Fox News Channel's "Hannity" in an interview to air later Monday, adding that he "fundamentally" disagreed with him."
Obama can keep whining about Romney's taxes but it won't save him!!
If Give 'em Hell Harry Reid decides to run for President, he would gladly follow tradition and release his income tax returns. But he's in the Senate, and that is not the tradition for people running for Senate.
As a US Senator, Harry Reid is required to file annual US Senate Financial Disclosure Report forms and he has done so without whining about it for years now.
Here are Harry Reid's US Senate Financial Disclosure Reports covering the years from 1995-2011.
See how easy that was?
Now all Mitt has to do is stop in at Staples, copy his income tax forms from 1999-2011, and disclose his finances.
there is no logical argument that a Presidential candidate should disclose his last ten tax returns that wouldn't also apply to the Senate Majority Leader
traditions change over time
this one makes no sense when the opposition is looking for material to distract the electorate from its record and has already lied about what little it knows
like Reid, Romney has followed the law
Reid hasn't done any more
but he should be glad Romney is running for office
otherwise, he'd be facing a lawsuit for slander
Romney is making the right call and the old liberal intimidation tactics aren't working
time for Harry Reid to come clean and let us know what he's hiding
"traditions change over time"
Yes they do, I couldn't have said that any better myself.
I am lucky enough to have witnessed over the span of my lifetime changes in what was once considered traditional marriage, from denying interracial marriage and same-sex marriage to celebrating both.
Same-sex marriage has been legal in Massachusetts since May 17, 2004; in Connecticut since November 12, 2008; in Iowa since April 27, 2009; in Vermont since September 1, 2009; New Hampshire since January 1, 2010; and New York since July 24, 2011.
Next up, Maryland!
interracial marriage is as old as Moses' marriage to an Ethiopian
nothing new or untraditional
gay "marriage" isn't a type of marriage at all but an attack on marriage by redefining it as a mono-gender union
that has been made clear by American voters 37 times
oops!
you were wrong again
Romney wants to be President of the United States of America and the best he's got is "I know you are but what am I"
unfortunately, all he has to do to qualify this round is not be an anti-American socialist
who would have thought it would come to this?
I might have even considered Hillary if she was running
of course, she's already announced she's running out the door, regardless of the outcome, as soon as the election's over
Clinton hails gay rights activists in wary Uganda
"(Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Friday praised activists who opposed a tough draft law in Uganda targeting gays and lesbians, calling them an inspiration for others struggling to secure equal rights around the world.
Clinton presented a coalition of Ugandan rights groups with the State Department's 2011 Human Rights Defender Award, a signal to African and Islamic nations that Washington will not backtrack in its fight against the legal and political persecution of homosexuals.
"It is critical for all Ugandans - the government and citizens alike - to speak out against discrimination, harassment, and intimidation of anyone. That's true no matter where they come from, what they believe, or whom they love," Clinton said.
Clinton said she raised the issue in talks on Friday with Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni, whose government has been accused of allowing political and religious leaders to drum up anti-gay feeling in the deeply conservative East African nation.
"You are a model for others and an inspiration for the world," Clinton said to representatives of the group, formed in 2009 to combat draft legislation which proposed the death penalty for anyone convicted of "aggravated homosexuality".
The bill, which spurred a global outcry, stalled in parliament but has been reintroduced in a watered down form by a member of Museveni's party.
Clinton's strong expression of support for Uganda's beleaguered gay community came as she continued a seven-nation trip across Africa."
after gay advocacy groups were so embarassed last week by the overwhelming public support given to Chik-fil-A and the nearly non-existent kiss-in counter-protest, they decided to have a day, today, to show support for Starbucks because the coffeee shop chain always supported gays
here's the funny part:
Starbucks said: "could you mind not singling us out and just support all the businesses that promote homosexuality?"
pretty funny, even their supporters don't want to be too closely associated with them
of course, this is a time-tested tactic by gays:
announce they want everyone to do something to show they support gay causes and make it something they already do anyway
when I was in college, pre-AIDS, gays would have a day when tell everyone to wear jeans if they support gay rights
of course, 90% of us wore jeans every day anyway
then, some gay would get in the media saying how seeing jeans everywhere brought tears to their eyes
pathetic
Starbucks are always pretty crowded
gays were trying to take credit for it
pathetic
too funny, too funny...
when you consider that gays are always trying to convince us all that they are mainstream and anyone who opposes them is a societal outcast
and even when they try to pay back their supporters, the supporters says: keep your distance
btw, Obama who managed to intimidate John Roberts into upholding his clearly unconstitutional health bill, is now in trouble for some of his other, umm, extraconsitutional activities:
"Manhattan federal court Judge Katherine Forrest in May ruled in favor of activists and reporters who said they feared being detained under a section of the law enacted by President Barack Obama in December.
Obama says indefinite military detention without trial is justified in cases involving militants and their supporters.
The judge's preliminary injunction prevents Obama from enforcing section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act's "Homeland Battlefield" provisions."
remember how Obama campaigned as an anti-war candidate?
now, he sits in the White House watching the world on satellite camera and pushes a button to kill by drone anyone he doesn't like
he'd make a good Bond villain
"he'd make a good Bond villain"
Here's your villain, a man full of hate.
The Milwaukee Shooting White Noise
Long before the shooter walked into a suburban Milwaukee Sikh temple and opened fire, murdering six people before being killed by police, the former soldier reportedly responsible for the horrific attack was loaded with the ideological ammunition to carry out acts of mass violence against people of color.
Wade Michael Page has been identified as the alleged shooter. The exact motivation for Page’s targeting of the Sikh temple is not now known, but his background shows a young man who for over a decade had his head filled with white noise.
After being drummed out of the Army with a less-than-honorable discharge in 1998, Page discovered the white power music scene in 2000. During this period the so-called white power music scene was burgeoning into a multi-million-dollar-a-year international enterprise and the leading recruiting tool attracting a new generation of white nationalist “street soldiers” into the movement.
In those years after the Army, Page travelled the country attending white power music festivals in Colorado, Georgia, North Carolina, and West Virginia, and found a home in the movement. He quickly rose in stature by not just being another sieg heiling racist in the crowd, but being up on stage as a popular white power musician. Page claims to have played in some of the most well-known white power music bands in the United States and Europe, including acts like Celtic Warrior, Radikahl, Max Resist, Intimidation One, Aggressive Force, Youngland, and Blue Eyed Devils.
Those racist bands all sound pretty similar, but today white power music music comes in a multitude of genres, from National Socialist Black Metal to Ku Klux Klan Country ballads. It may be packaged differently, but the message is the same: hatred of Jews, Muslims, all people of color and the LGBT community; exhortations to violence and even glorification of genocide.
Take, for instance, the lyrics of one of the bands that Page, the alleged assassin gigged with, Intimidation One, “Die Jew. I hate you. You are nothing but a fool. Line you up, cut you down. Where you belong is in the ground. Choke you hard, slit your throat. Kick you in your teeth. Break your back, hear that crack. I think I’ll break your feet. Slam you down into the ground. You filthy slimy sh-t. Break your nose and your toes. And split your f—king lip.” Another of the bands he gigged with, the Blue Eyed Devils, has a CD entitled Holocaust 2000.
Since the scene developed in the 1980s, white power music followers have perpetrated a long list of murders and mayhem. In 1999, for instance, a young white power skinhead named Benjamin Smith went on a two state killing spree, killing two and wounding over a dozen others before taking his own life. In his car, beside his body and rounds of ammunition, they found CDs from several of the bands with whom Page would later play.
Though no longer growing at the rate it was when Page first joined the ranks, the white power music scene has stabilized and matured. It remains an omnipresent threat in communities across the country, able to erupt at any time. It requires a concerted effort by young people, parents, teachers, and recording industry professionals working together to turn down the sounds of hate before another incident occurs.
a lone nut and not a powerful evil character like the Bond villains and Barack Obama
I think we've all read the story about the shooting at the Sikh temple
is there something you wanted to add?
because you didn't add anything yet
btw, any feed back from Starbucks about their Gay Appreciation Day?
hahaha!!
"The worker at an Arizona Chick-fil-A who was belittled by a man who made a viral video of the incident says she wants to meet him face-to-face even though he already apologized.
“I appreciate that he came forward, but I’m definitely interested in speaking with him,” the Tuscon, Ariz., drive-through worker--who would only give her first name, Rachel—told FoxNews.com. “I want to see if he was sincere and let him know why I handled it the way I did and not take legal action, which a lot of people told me I should do.”
“There’s no reason to drag him through the mud any more than he has been,” the polite 26-year-old added.
Rachel was working the window last Wednesday when Adam Smith videotaped himself going through the drive-thru ordering only free water and espousing his disgust.
“Chick-fil-A is a hateful company,” Smith told Rachel on the video, which he originally posted on YouTube before removing it. "I don’t know how you sleep at night. This is a horrible corporation with horrible values.”
Rachel kept her composure throughout the odd exchange and wished Smith a nice day.
“I was just really concerned about him taping. I knew he was going to post it. That was my main fear,” Rachel said.
“I’m Christian and God tells us to love thy neighbor,” she added referring to how she kept the exchange polite on her end. “One of my friends saw they video and said, ‘Yep that’s Rachel and that’s the way she is.”"
so now, merely believing in traditional marriage makes you part of a "hate" group
more gay adventures in English language abuse
this makes most Americans, who have consistently voted against redefining marriage, part of a hate group
gays are just begging for a backlash and will now provide a major boost to Amway's business:
"Amway, the Michigan-based direct selling company, has been linked to a pro-marriage group opposing the redefinition of marriage to include gay partners, and now a prominent activist for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community is calling for a boycott.
The Douglas and Maria DeVos Foundation, a foundation that "seeks to share the importance of their Christian faith," is supported financially by Amway president Doug DeVos. The company donated $500,000 to the National Organization for Marriage (NOM) in 2009.
That donation was used to fight the redefinition of marriage across the nation, which is why Fred Karger, president of the LGBT advocacy group, Rights Equal Rights foundation, is asking for a boycott of Amway and its affiliates, including the Orlando Magic basketball team, which is owned by DeVos' father and Amway co-founder Richard DeVos.
“I have been closely tracking NOM for over four years,” Karger said. "Only the Catholic Church’s political arm the Knights of Columbus has given more to the ‘Hate Group’ NOM.”
In response, Karger has launched the website BoycottAmway.com, which includes a full list of all Amway affiliates, a Change.org petition and a phone number to call DeVos.
Amway responded to the boycott with a statement saying the owners of Amway support the right to express one's beliefs.
"As private citizens, the DeVos family supports causes and organizations that advocate for policies aligned to their personal beliefs," an Amway spokesperson said in a statement. "Both families believe one of the highest callings of any individual is to express their own personal beliefs as a participant in the democratic process."
The statement also says that Amway's goal is to support a favorable business environment, adding, "Our employees and distributors come from all walks of life and represent an incredibly diverse set of backgrounds. The Amway opportunity is open to everyone."
According to its website, NOM is "a nonprofit organization with a mission to protect marriage and the faith communities that sustain it." It was founded in 2007 to pass Proposition 8 in California and promote the defense of marriage in other states across America.
A quick visit to the website takes users to a thank you message written for those who attended the recent Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day, an event created for those who support Chick-fil-A and its pro-marriage stance. Inside, readers will find anti-Obama ads and videos from Kirk Cameron.
Amway, founded in 1959 by Jay Van Andel and Richard DeVos, has been affiliated with a Christian conservative ideology for years. "The founding families are fervently conservative, fervently Christian, and hugely influential in the Republican Party," according to a Business Week article from 1998.
The company is active in more than 80 countries and territories around the world and boasted annual sales of $10.9 billion for the year ended Dec. 31, 2011."
that oughta scare Amway silly!
how dare they believe marriage is between a man and a woman!
just the kinda stinkin' thinkin' that we need to wipe out here in socialist America
btw, the Washington Post is comparing Harry Reid to Joseph McCarthy in today's editorial page for spreading rumors about Mitt Romney's taxes from secret sources when Reid is perfectly aware that the charges are wrong
McCarthy used similar tactics against suspected Communists in American society
OMG Harry Reid is going to be so embarrassed when Mitt shows the public his tax returns!
actually, Mitt is never releasing any tax returns other than the last two years
there is really no reason to
those two years are adequate for Americans to assess his financial situation
Harry Reid should be embarassed now for spreading rumors he knows are false and for calling on others to meet a standard he is not willing to meet himself
right now, Mitt Romney has released more returns than Harry Reid and Mitt's not making up lies about Harry
is Harry embarassed by his own behavior?
apparently not
the word for that is:
shameless
"btw, the Washington Post is comparing Harry Reid to Joseph McCarthy in today's editorial page for spreading rumors about Mitt Romney's taxes from secret sources when Reid is perfectly aware that the charges are wrong"
Yeah, like the Post's and just about everybody else's editorial pages compared Bachmann's recent attacks on Huma Abedin and others of her faith to Joe McCarthy's tactics.
Next thing we know, an angry avowed supporter of White Power shoots up some peace-loving Sikhs, who may resemble Muslims to some, but are not.
That reminds me, also in today's Washington Post -- in the news section, not the editorial page section -- reports Romney confuses ‘Sikh’ with ‘sheik’
are you saying Reid is justified in falsely attacking Romney because of some statements by Bachmann?
bizarre
are you saying that anyone who opposes sharia influence in the American legal system is responsible whenever a nut decides to shoot a Sikh temple?
bizarre
are you saying Mitt Romney made a slip of tongue worse than Obama's "flexibility" with Vladimir and the government "built" all business achievements in America?
bizarre
just bizarre
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This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Harry Reid Is Vilified by a Press Corps That Tolerates Much Worse From the Right
"The media tolerates no end of birther nonsense and other paranoid fantasies from the right, but let Harry Reid accuse Mitt Romney of not paying his taxes and all hell breaks loose. Michelle Goldberg explores this double standard.
For the past four years, various Republican officials have speculated that Barack Obama might be the foreign-born perpetrator of an elaborate biographical hoax, and thus not a legitimate president. Among them were several senators, including Oklahoma’s Jim Inhofe, who was quoted in Politico saying that the birthers “have a point.” Later, in a statement, he added, “The White House has not done a very good job of dispelling the concerns of these citizens.”
More recently, several Republican congressmen, led by Michele Bachmann, have demanded an investigation into Muslim Brotherhood infiltration into the Obama administration. While some in the party have denounced her, Mitt Romney adviser John Bolton came to her defense, asking, “What is wrong with raising the question?”
Yet somehow, after years in which calumnies against the president and his administration have become so routine as to be unremarkable, Harry Reid’s suggestion that Romney might have avoided paying taxes has roused establishment pundits to fits of pearl-clutching horror. On Sunday’s This Week With George Stephanopoulos, ABC News’s Jonathan Karl called Reid’s statements "one of the most outrageous charges that I've ever seen actually made on the Senate floor.” On Face the Nation, Bob Schieffer compared Reid’s charges with McCarthyism, an analogy that The Washington Post’s Richard Cohen reported on Monday: “The soaring rhetoric that Obama used in his first campaign has come to ground in the mud of Harry Reid’s latter-day McCarthyism.” On Tuesday, the Chicago Tribune ran an editorial headlined, “Harry Reid, Birther.”
Now simply claiming that the other side is worse is not a defense against political wrongdoing, and journalists needn’t judge ethical lapses on a curve. Still, Reid’s insinuations are pretty tame by the standards of contemporary political combat. The idea that Obama has camouflaged his past in order to illegally usurp the presidency requires wild leaps of logic and, if true, would mean that he is a criminal. The same is true of the frequent Republican allegations that Bill Clinton had Vince Foster murdered. By contrast, every year more than a thousand millionaires use various legal accounting tricks to avoid paying income taxes. Reid’s claim is not incredible on its face, nor does it imply that Romney has broken any law...."
"...This is not to say that Reid is playing entirely fair, just that he’s engaged in ordinary politics, not some outrageous new breech of decorum. The McCarthy analogy is particularly absurd. McCarthy’s wild accusations were poisonous for two reasons. First, they often relied on guilt by association—peoples’ lives were destroyed simply for associating with those deemed unsavory. Second, they were almost impossible to disprove. By contrast, if Reid is lying, it would be easy enough for Romney to discredit him. (And no journalist who has ever quoted an anonymous source should automatically assume that he is.)
That's why the birther comparison is ridiculous as well. Obama released his birth certificate, but Republicans insisted on insinuating that it was a fake. For the birther analogy to make sense, Romney would have to release his tax returns, and Democrats would have to accuse him of forging them. But Romney, to the bafflement of many in his own party, is breaking with a campaign tradition established by his own father and keeping his returns secret. He is demonstrably hiding something. It is not beyond the pale for political players to speculate about what that is.
What really seems to be going on here is that a Democrat is successfully engaged in the sort of hardball tactics that Republicans usually have a monopoly on, and the media don’t quite know what to make of it. When it comes to making wild, unsubstantiated allegations, the GOP benefits from the soft bigotry of low expectations—at this point, few people can bring themselves to get that worked up about insane Republican mudslinging. Yet when a Democrat even tiptoes in that direction it’s news, and a chance for pundits to demonstrate the bipartisan bona fides so valued in the Beltway. It’s not balance, though, to equate the toughest rhetoric coming from each side when they’re saying such radically different things."
to the BOLD cut-and-paste artist:
could you try to cut the posts down to size?
this one could have made all its points in abbreviated version
Harry Reid has intentionally lied about Romney's tax situation
no Republican in a comparable position has done this about him or Obama
the press' characterization of his actions are appropriate
he should be censured by the Senate, relieved of his post as Majority Leader and, if he has any sense, resign
Anon, it would be easy to prove you are right and Harry Reid lied. But at this time there is no evidence.
Romney Girl!
"Anon, it would be easy to prove you are right and Harry Reid lied. But at this time there is no evidence."
actually, there is proof that Reid lied: a witness
Romney, his wife, amd his accountant are all witnesses says Reid lied
these should actually be the only one who know for sure, other than the IRS
now, who is the witness Romney didn't pay taxes?
if it's the IRS, there are some criminal charges to be brought
Reid can't produce this piece of evidence
three witnesses suffice
Reid lied
Why is Mitt Romney hiding the only evidence that can prove the veracity of Harry Reid's claim that Romney paid no income taxes for 10 years??
Romney should be proud of himself for legally avoiding paying income taxes, it shows his good financial and business sense.
Unlike the birthers who falsely accuse the President of fraud — or Michele Bachmann, who blindly accuses public servants of treason — Harry Reid has never accused Mitt Romney of a crime. In fact, by Mitt’s own definition, Reid is paying him a compliment.
Remember what Romney said on this topic: “I don’t pay more than are legally due and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don’t think I’d be qualified to become president. I’d think people would want me to follow the law and pay only what the tax code requires.”
All Harry Reid is saying is that Mitt found a way — based on existing tax codes — to pay no taxes. He is arguing that Mitt legally avoided any tax responsibility to the U.S. government and that’s why he won’t reveal his returns. But why not, Mitt? A zero in the “Amount owed” box would be the ultimate proof that you’re qualified to be president, according to your own odd standard.
Is it out of the question Romney paid no income taxes at all some years? Hell no.
According to the IRS, almost 1500 millionaires paid zero taxes in 2009. That’s correct. No taxes. How did they do it? They “were probably donating to charity, investing in local and state government bonds and making most of their money overseas.” Hmmm. At least two of these tactics are Romney specialties, as we know from his limited disclosures that he is a fan of overseas investments and tithes a tenth of his income to his Church and other charities.
Why pretend Mitt Romney wouldn’t be proud if he avoided paying any taxes for ten years. If he weren’t awkwardly forced to pretend he lives in the same world as most Americans, he’d be bragging about the lengths he goes to avoid paying taxes at home and abroad. And he isn’t alone.
The extremely rich, according to a recent report, are keeping at least $21 trillion in overseas tax havens. But the fact is they usually don’t even have to hide their money because the tax code is written to lighten the burden on rich. Why? The rich can afford lobbyists to rewrite the tax code in their favor. Mitt has a lobbyist just for his beach house. Yes, a lobbyist dedicated to just one of his houses. And it saved him plenty.
No, these are not "witnesses," these are involved parties with incentive to cover up the truth that Harry Reid has brought forward.
It is easy to prove he is a liar: put the tax records on the table.
Put up or shut up, Mitt.
"Romney, his wife, amd his accountant are all witnesses says Reid lied"
Bull-oney!
Not a single one of those people was on the phone with Senator Reid and the Bain investor who told Reid about Romney not paying taxes for 10 years.
If the three of them know the Romneys paid income taxes those 10 years, why are they keeping the proof of their claim from the American public?
"Why is Mitt Romney hiding the only evidence that can prove the veracity of Harry Reid's claim that Romney paid no income taxes for 10 years??"
it's because he decided he wanted to keep his personal financial tax situation private
Reid is attempting to bully him into releasing them anyway
it's backfiring on Reid and Romney is demonstrating his character
by refusing to be intimidated
thanks to Reid for turning Mitt into the aggrieved party in this situation
quite a feat
he has three witnesses, that suffices
"Romney should be proud of himself for legally avoiding paying income taxes, it shows his good financial and business sense."
well, he'd probably like to say that but it's untrue
he paid taxes- and lots of 'em
"Unlike the birthers who falsely accuse the President of fraud —"
don't thunk any Republican Senators have accused Obama of fraud
"All Harry Reid is saying is that Mitt found a way — based on existing tax codes — to pay no taxes. He is arguing that Mitt legally avoided any tax responsibility to the U.S. government and that’s why he won’t reveal his returns."
actually, Reid is on record as wanting to raise taxes on the wealthy with the rationale that they generally don't pay tax
"But why not, Mitt? A zero in the “Amount owed” box would be the ultimate proof that you’re qualified to be president, according to your own odd standard."
he didn't say that
he said he shouldn't pay tax if he doesn't owe any
but he did owe money so their is no point
there are incentives where the government tries to manipulate the behavior of the wealthy by giving them tax breaks but Mitt never said a Presidential candidate should be required to change their behavior to take advantage of these tax incentives
"Is it out of the question Romney paid no income taxes at all some years? Hell no."
it is out of the question because he said that is not the case
"According to the IRS, almost 1500 millionaires paid zero taxes in 2009. That’s correct. No taxes. How did they do it? They “were probably donating to charity, investing in local and state government bonds and making most of their money overseas.”
there are citizens at all levels that pay no tax
on average, the wealthy pay a higher rate and, when not, their money funnels to other societal benefit and not their own inurement
don't like it?
join with the Repubs who want to simplify the code and stop using it to warp economic conditions
"Hmmm. At least two of these tactics are Romney specialties, as we know from his limited disclosures that he is a fan of overseas investments and tithes a tenth of his income to his Church and other charities."
hmmm. that's how our tax system is set up.
so what?
"Why pretend Mitt Romney wouldn’t be proud if he avoided paying any taxes for ten years."
OK. and then let's pretend that Barack Obama is a Soviet agent and that Bill Clinton didn't take sexual advantage of young female interns and that Jimmy Carter was re-elected four times like FDR
"No, these are not "witnesses," these are involved parties with incentive to cover up the truth that Harry Reid has brought forward."
actually, Harry Reid lied
everyone knows that now
"It is easy to prove he is a liar: put the tax records on the table.
Put up or shut up, Mitt."
sorry, Harry needs to show his evidence
he doesn't have any
"Not a single one of those people was on the phone with Senator Reid and the Bain investor who told Reid about Romney not paying taxes for 10 years."
how would a Bain investor know how Romney paid in taxes?
Reid's lying
"If the three of them know the Romneys paid income taxes those 10 years, why are they keeping the proof of their claim from the American public?"
the same reason Harry Reid is not making his tax returns public
they are witnesses
witnesses are proof
unless assused of perjury, they aren't obligated to provide proof of their testimony
lot of babble here but the bottom line is Harry Reid lied and no one's got his back
The Moment All the Doubts About Romney Resurfaced on the Right
"The "Read My Lips" Moment of Betrayal At Least Comes Before the Election This Time
Posted by Erick Erickson (Diary)
Wednesday, August 8th at 1:02PM EDT
Priorities USA was damaging itself and Barack Obama over its mind numbingly insane ad painting Mitt Romney as a killer.
Then the Romney campaign decided to sabotage itself with a mind numbingly bit of spin that may mark the day the Romney campaign died.
Defending Romney and combatting the ad, Romney spokesman Andrea Saul . . . let’s go to the quotes
“To that point, if people had been in Massachusetts, under Governor Romney’s health care plan, they would have had health care,” Andrea Saul, Romney’s campaign press secretary, said during an appearance on Fox News. “There are a lot of people losing their jobs and losing their health care in President [Barack] Obama’s economy.”
Conservatives have put aside their distrust of Romney on this issue in the name of beating Barack Obama. They thought he and his campaign team had gotten the message and the hints. Consider the scab picked, the wound opened, and the distrust trickling out again.
About the only thing more stupid in terms of building bridges with the right would be to say something nice about fetal stem cell research.
Start your watches for that one!"
can't believe Harry Reid thought he could get away with lying
As noted before, for Dan Cathy of Chik-fil-A and our own irrepressible anonymous, marriage is just a talking point. The real issue is a long history of anti-lgbt animus. Chik-fil-A has been donating to anti-gay and ex-gay groups for years.
as noted before, Robert, you're an idiot
gays are the ones always bringing up changing marriage to include deviants
me and Dan Kathy like things just the way they are
so,why would that be just a talking point?
if you want to stop bringing it up, I'd be delighted to go along
actually, people have been simply going along, hoping if we just shrug and do nothing, gays would eventually stop making so much trouble
Chik-fil-A looks like it may represent a turning point, where everyone had had quite enough of the hyperbolic babble about "hate" and "bigotry" from the lunatic fringe gay grouos
last Wednesday, was the day America pushed back
don't expect that to change
A long-time Pennsylvania GOP official reportedly earned a warm reception Tuesday for comparing a supporter of President Obama to someone who is "mentally retarded."
At an election night party for state Rep. Randy Vulakovich (R-Shaler), Allegheny County GOP chair and former county executive Jim Roddey fired up a couple hundred local Republicans by noting that Vulakovich had defeated his Democratic opponent by a nearly 50-point margin.
Roddey then segued to a less positive note.
"There was a disappointment tonight. I was very embarrassed," Roddey told the crowd, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. "I was in this parking lot and there was a man looking for a space to park, and I found a space for him. And I felt badly -- he looked like he was sort of in distress. And I said, 'Sir, here's a place.' And he said, 'That's a handicapped space.' I said, 'Oh, I'm so sorry, I saw that Obama sticker and I thought you were mentally retarded.'"
Post-Gazette reporter Tim McNulty observed that the crowd "hollered and clapped" in response to the insensitive joke.
boring
sure if we tried, we could find insensitive remarks made by obscure Dems
this one was not actually that bad
simply saying that mental retardation might affect one's capacity to accurately assess the candidates
August 8, 2012
National Journal reports
Democrats Run the Table in Last Night's Primaries
"Last night's primaries in Michigan, Missouri, Washington state and Kansas couldn't have gone much better for Democrats."
Wow. Getting excited about primaries? Let us know when an actual election takes place.
Great news for Repubs on national front. Obama is siding with the Blade and going after boy scouts:
"President Barack Obama expressed his opposition to the Boy Scouts of America's reaffirmation of its policy of excluding gays on Wednesday.
The president called the rule, which was renewed in July after a two-year review, "discrimination" in a statement to the Washington Blade.
“The President opposes discrimination in all forms, and as such opposes this policy that discriminates on basis of sexual orientation,” White House spokesperson Shin Inouye said.
Despite the opposition, the Boy Scouts' chief executive, Bob Mazzuca, said most Scout families support the policy, which applies to both adult leaders and Scouts.
The Scouts cited support from parents as a key reason for keeping the policy and expressed hope that the prolonged debate over it might now subside. Bitter reactions from gay advocacy groups suggested that result was unlikely.
The Scouts' national spokesman, Deron Smith, told The Associated Press that an 11-member special committee, formed discreetly by top Scout leaders in 2010, came to the conclusion that the exclusion policy "is absolutely the best policy" for the 102-year-old organization.
Smith said the committee, comprised of professional scout executives and adult volunteers, was unanimous in its conclusion – preserving a long-standing policy that was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000.
This isn't the first time Obama has expressed his support for homosexuality. In May 2012, he became the first sitting president to announce his support for changing the definition of marriage to include gay partnerships, and in June he held a Gay Pride Month reception at the White House, where several gays attending acted inappropriately.
Over the years, numerous cases have surfaced of gay scout leaders abusing boys in their charge, justifying the need for the scouts, a same gender organization, to disassociate themselves from those with same gender sexual attraction."
Missourians approved a constitutional amendment Tuesday, expanding the state's foundational document to include new sections regarding prayer and other religious issues.
Amendment 2 ensures that Missouri schoolchildren have to right to initiate prayer and voluntarily acknowledge God in the classroom, and requires all public schools to display the Bill of Rights on campus. It also states the government will not infringe on Missouri residents' free exercise of religion.
Press Release from NETWORK A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby
Washington DC: NETWORK, a National Catholic Social Justice Lobby, is inviting Governor Mitt Romney to spend a day with Catholic Sisters who work every day to meet the needs of struggling families in their communities. Sister Simone Campbell, NETWORK’s Executive Director and leader of the “Nuns on the Bus” tour, said that she especially encourages Mr. Romney to work alongside the Sisters as they serve the people. These are the people who will be further harmed by his proposed budget cuts and by the terribly divisive and demeaning political advertisements about welfare.
The Sisters’ invitation comes after recent false attacks from Mr. Romney that demonstrate his lack of understanding of the struggles families and children face as they work to get out of poverty.
“Recent advertisements and statements from the campaign of Governor Romney demonize families in poverty and reflect woeful ignorance about the challenges faced by tens of millions of American families in these tough economic times,” stated Sister Simone Campbell. “We are all God’s children and equal in God’s eyes. Efforts to divide us by class or score political points at the expense of the most vulnerable of our brothers and sisters reveal the worst side of our country’s politics.”
As NETWORK demonstrated in their recent “Nuns on the Bus” tour, budget cuts proposed by Rep. Paul Ryan and endorsed by Mitt Romney will hurt struggling families throughout the nation. The Romney-Ryan budget would devastate services such as nutrition assistance, childhood education and job training that provide pathways out of poverty for millions of families.
Mitt Romney released a new ad criticizing President Obama's contraception mandate on Thursday — just one day after Obama highlighted the policy in an appeal to female voters.
"President Obama used his healthcare plan to declare war on religion, forcing religious institutions to go against their faith," the ad says. "Mitt Romney believes that's wrong."
The ad doesn't directly mention the contraception policy, but its criticisms echo the attacks over that measure. Obama's policy requires most employers to provide contraception in their health plans without charging a co-pay or deductible. Churches and houses of worship are ***exempt***, and religious-affiliated employers like Catholic universities don't have to provide the coverage directly, but their insurance companies do.
The Romney ad goes on to show Romney quoting from Pope John Paul II while visiting Poland earlier this summer and trumpets his endorsement from former Polish president and Nobel Peace Prize winner Lech Walesa.
"When religious freedom is threatened, who do you want to stand with?" the ad's narrator asks.
Republicans have largely steered clear of the contraception debate recently, following an initial burst of criticism that appeared to hurt the party's standing with female voters. House Republicans did not follow through on their pledge to repeal the mandate, despite holding more than 30 votes to repeal or weaken other parts of Obama's healthcare law.
So why is Romney stepping right into this issue that hurts the GOP's standing with so many US women voters?
Romney wants voters forget he has so far been unable and unwilling to provide a shred of evidence to "you people" he paid a as much as one red cent in income taxes from 2000-2009.
"So why is Romney stepping right into this issue that hurts the GOP's standing with so many US women voters?"
actually, women agree that Catholics shouldn't be forced to provide them with free contraceptives, against their moral principles
there isn't much case for free contraceptives anyway
they're cheap enough for anyone to afford and pregnancy is not a disease
this whole incident is example one of why governement bureaucrats shouldn't be controllong what insurance are allowed to provide
"Romney wants voters forget he has so far been unable and unwilling to provide a shred of evidence to "you people""
the "you people" remark by Ann Romney was cleared aimed at the media, who arrogantly think they represent the public, even though they weren't elected
the American people think of the media as "you people" too
"he paid a as much as one red cent in income taxes from 2000-2009"
he doesn't have the burden of proving this to anyone
he has, further, demonstrated remarkable character is refusing to fold to media pressure on this issue
sounds like he won't be very flexible with Vladimir Putin
unlike you-know-who
Boy Scout leader Timothy Griffin says he was fired for being gay
VACAVILLE, CA (KXTV) - Sitting in a friend's home in Vacaville, 22-year-old Timothy Griffin is convinced he was fired from Camp Winton in Amador County for being gay.
Griffin, an 8-year veteran of the camp, was let go last week.
The Golden Council of the Boy Scouts of America, which oversees this region, said Griffin was fired for a personnel matter; more specifically, a dress code violation in which Griffin refused to remove nail polish from all 10 fingernails.
Griffin said there's never really been a dress code and the reasoning is just a cover to the real reason: the Boys Scouts' policy against gays.
"Everyone on staff understands it's because I'm gay," Griffin said. "The fact that it happened two or three days after (the Boys Scouts') affirmation of anti-gay policy speaks a lot about why they fired me."
Griffin was a camp leader in the camp, which is about a mile hike into the El Dorado National Forest.
"I am very hurt, the word I've been using is heartbroken," Griffin said. "For them to fire me over something so petty shows so much disrespect."
Golden Council Scout Executive Jim Martin said in a statement, "As this is a personnel matter, I am not at liberty to discuss details, but I can tell you that, contrary to other reports, this incident has nothing to do with our membership policy. The camp director has no knowledge of this individual's sexual orientation."
Griffin doesn't buy it, but does admit some troops made complaints. He's been openly gay for at least five years.
"They were scared of the safety of their children around me and they felt I wasn't a good role model for their kids," Griffin said, citing the complaints filed.
But he dismisses those complaints as homophobic.
When Griffin was dismissed, at least 12 other staff members walked out on the job showing their support.
"Most of the people that left were straight," said Kayla Doria, one of those who walked out. "We can't be a part of an organization where discrimination is institutionalized."
Griffin's greatest fear isn't his future, is that of younger Scouts still in the troop.
"I want these kids who are shaking in their boots right now in scouting and are queer to understand that it's okay to be gay."
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