Swastikas Versus Peace
This is a kind of ordinary story, some kids in Florida opposed the war, some of the other students used the usual intelligent techniques of name-calling and intimidation to try to stop them, the school administration let it go, etcetera etcetera.
There are a couple of twists though.
Will someone please show me the logical taxonomy that places swastikas and "white power" as the counterarguments to peace?
It's funny how this is at once obvious and absurd. Of course swastikas and "white power" slogans are the opposite of what these kids are doing, you can't say you don't see that. It's as simple as left-wing, right-wing. But then again ... how does the desire for peace challenge white supremacists? What's the connection?
I remember once standing -- this was years ago -- outside a restaurant-bar in some college town in North Carolina, where a guy was playing spacey psychedelic melodies on a flute, sitting cross-legged on a sheepskin, wearing harem pants ... you get the picture. I was in a Southern rock band at that time, we were on a break and I was out there with our other guitar player, Dale, who was from Alabama, and was, as usual, drunk. He stood there studying this guy's poster outside the door; the guy wanted to save the whales, heal the ozone layer, he wanted world peace, mmm, legalized marijuana, I think. And Dale stood there, wobbling, reading that poster with one eye shut, and then he looked at me, un-crossed his eyes, and said, in that big Alabama accent, "Well, hey, I'm for all that stuff too."
Because even to rednecky Dale it just made sense. You take care of the place where you live, and you treat people with respect. Good ol' boy that he was, he couldn't find anything to disagree about with that patchouli-smelling, braided-haired, wispy-bearded hippie. See how easy that is?
But there in Florida, these days, you oppose the war, the response is "white power" and swastikas.
Let's just say, when I read this I'm glad I live in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Skipping down ...
Um, yeah. Symbols of peace, sure.
The interesting thing to me is that two contradictory things are obvious. First, it's obvious that supporting the war or opposing it has nothing logically to do with race or attitudes about race, nothing to do with Hitler's Germany, it has nothing to do with the outcome of the Civil War nearly 150 years ago, or the division between the Northern and Southern states in general -- it seems to me that Red and Blue correlate with proximity to the coastline, not North and South. But the second thing is equally obvious, that there is a cluster of beliefs and attitudes that go together, including racism, homophobia, the belief that abortion is murder and the death penalty is a good thing, fear of immigration, support for the war in Iraq.
We all see this. Take your neighbor, the card-carrying CRC member, anti-gay, up in arms over the idea that you won't be able to discriminate against transgender people in our county any more -- go over and ask them what they think about abortion, about the war, about the death penalty, about immigration. You know what they'll say before you even ask.
Maybe somebody here will be able to explain how those things go together.
There are a couple of twists though.
COCOA BEACH, Fla. — Students at Cocoa Beach Jr./Sr. High School are waging a war on peace.Recently, sophomore Skylar Stains decided to hold Peace Shirt Thursdays at the school. Skylar and her friend, Lauren Lorraine, started wearing peace shirts and soon recruited more friends to wear them. Now, the “Peace Shirt Coalition” as they call themselves, has close to 30 students from all grades.
“We’ve worn handmade peace shirts every Thursday since the first week of school, without fail,” Skylar said.
But what started out as a light-hearted gesture soon started to be taken out of context.
Students started approaching the group members, yelling obscene things at them, said Lauren.
“People just turned on us like that,” she said. “At least 10 boys stood up and yelled things at me at once, and we couldn’t even walk through the halls without a harsh comment being made.”
The heckling began early in the school year, according to group members. They said they were putting small posters promoting peace on friends’ lockers with their permission.
They thought it was OK, because the cheerleaders and football players had signs on theirs. Eventually, though, group members said they were told by the school’s administration they could no longer hang up the posters.
“People tore them down and drew swastikas and ‘white power’ stuff on them,” Lauren said.
Skylar had similar things written on her posters. Students Wear Confederate Flag Shirts To Oppose Peace-Shirt Group
Will someone please show me the logical taxonomy that places swastikas and "white power" as the counterarguments to peace?
It's funny how this is at once obvious and absurd. Of course swastikas and "white power" slogans are the opposite of what these kids are doing, you can't say you don't see that. It's as simple as left-wing, right-wing. But then again ... how does the desire for peace challenge white supremacists? What's the connection?
I remember once standing -- this was years ago -- outside a restaurant-bar in some college town in North Carolina, where a guy was playing spacey psychedelic melodies on a flute, sitting cross-legged on a sheepskin, wearing harem pants ... you get the picture. I was in a Southern rock band at that time, we were on a break and I was out there with our other guitar player, Dale, who was from Alabama, and was, as usual, drunk. He stood there studying this guy's poster outside the door; the guy wanted to save the whales, heal the ozone layer, he wanted world peace, mmm, legalized marijuana, I think. And Dale stood there, wobbling, reading that poster with one eye shut, and then he looked at me, un-crossed his eyes, and said, in that big Alabama accent, "Well, hey, I'm for all that stuff too."
Because even to rednecky Dale it just made sense. You take care of the place where you live, and you treat people with respect. Good ol' boy that he was, he couldn't find anything to disagree about with that patchouli-smelling, braided-haired, wispy-bearded hippie. See how easy that is?
But there in Florida, these days, you oppose the war, the response is "white power" and swastikas.
“Someone taped an ‘I Love Bush’ sign over my ‘Wage Peace’ sign,” she said. “So I tore it down, threw it away, and the whole commons starting booing. I walk by later and find that someone has completely tore my sign down and placed an ‘I Love America, Because America Loves War’ sign up.”
Let's just say, when I read this I'm glad I live in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Skipping down ...
Soon, a second group started to wear Confederate flag shirts to oppose the peace group, Skylar said. She saw shirts with sayings such as “This is America, get used to it,” and “If peace is the answer; it must be a stupid question.”
“Now there are even ’support our troops’ kids who don’t like us because I guess they think you can’t say peace and support the troops at the same time,” Lauren said.
Skylar later passed out yellow ribbons for her group to wear to show they support the troops as well as peace.
However, Cocoa Beach Jr./Sr. High sophomores Lydia Pace and Joseph Marianetti said the Confederate shirts they wear express support for the troops in Iraq, and nothing more. Joseph said the shirts have nothing to do with racism.
“Someone took something that stood for peace and twisted it” in regards to the swastikas (drawn by a third group) and the Confederate flag, he said.
Um, yeah. Symbols of peace, sure.
The interesting thing to me is that two contradictory things are obvious. First, it's obvious that supporting the war or opposing it has nothing logically to do with race or attitudes about race, nothing to do with Hitler's Germany, it has nothing to do with the outcome of the Civil War nearly 150 years ago, or the division between the Northern and Southern states in general -- it seems to me that Red and Blue correlate with proximity to the coastline, not North and South. But the second thing is equally obvious, that there is a cluster of beliefs and attitudes that go together, including racism, homophobia, the belief that abortion is murder and the death penalty is a good thing, fear of immigration, support for the war in Iraq.
We all see this. Take your neighbor, the card-carrying CRC member, anti-gay, up in arms over the idea that you won't be able to discriminate against transgender people in our county any more -- go over and ask them what they think about abortion, about the war, about the death penalty, about immigration. You know what they'll say before you even ask.
Maybe somebody here will be able to explain how those things go together.
posted by JimK at 7:52 AM
18 Comments:
"that there is a cluster of beliefs and attitudes that go together, including racism, homophobia, the belief that abortion is murder and the death penalty is a good thing, fear of immigration, support for the war in Iraq"
Wrong.
"the card-carrying CRC member, anti-gay, up in arms over the idea that you won't be able to discriminate against transgender"
"Up in arms"? Do words have any meaning to this guy at all?
"people in our county any more -- go over and ask them what they think about abortion, about the war, about the death penalty, about immigration. You know what they'll say before you even ask."
Wrong.
BTW, the kids ripping down the posters remind of those in MC organizing trash cans to throw away PFOX materials. They just don't want to hear it, lest they find themselves being convinced.
Throwing away the PFOX flyers is a great way to show how MC feels about PFOX: their "science" and "information" are just that: trash (but we recycle, of course).
I don't know how these religious freaks are allowed to openly support and advertise hate in a public institution. Truth will prevail and these CRC and PFOX freaks will feel like big asses for the rest of their lives.
"the idea that you won't be able to discriminate against transgender people in our county any more"
The law is not about discrimination against transgender people.
The new law, which will be rescinded eventually, says that failure to treat a transgender as their imagined gender constitutes discrimination. The MC government now holds that you must participate in a transgender's fantasy or you have committed unlawful bias against them. Can we make a law that everyone has to play along with my fantasies too?
The press, the public, good people will see through this transparency.
Andrea- not anon
Because no one has the You know whats to tell the kids that the Confederate flag stands for a time when slavery was acceptable- not Southern pride and that swastikas are a symbol of a group that hates. It is interesting that the right wing which often complains that the left sees moral equivalence everywhere- does quite the same thing. When you start to say that it is acceptable for an adult public figure to scream out "Heil Hitler" and for teens to wear swastikas- you have crossed the line to being a hatemonger yourself.
Andrea- not anon
Because no one has the You know whats to tell the kids that the Confederate flag stands for a time when slavery was acceptable- not Southern pride and that swastikas are a symbol of a group that hates. It is interesting that the right wing which often complains that the left sees moral equivalence everywhere- does quite the same thing. When you start to say that it is acceptable for an adult public figure to scream out "Heil Hitler" and for teens to wear swastikas- you have crossed the line to being a hatemonger yourself.
"When you start to say that it is acceptable for an adult public figure to scream out "Heil Hitler" and for teens to wear swastikas- you have crossed the line to being a hatemonger yourself."
Did you hear someone "start to say that", Andreary?
Andrea- not anon
Why, Yes, N. anon- was it you or was it your clone who explained why it was okay for the head of the MC Republican's men club to yell out Heil Hitler at the county Council meeting- right here on this blog. You can also read this "gentleman's" own "explanation" on line at gazette.net. As to the swastikas, the article appears to say that the school thought it was okay as a response to a peace symbol. Once again- I don't make anything up- I'm not a CRCer. try to read more - and lie less.
This is one of the funniest fantasies I've yet read here:
"The law is not about discrimination against transgender people.
The new law, which will be rescinded eventually, says that failure to treat a transgender as their imagined gender constitutes discrimination. The MC government now holds that you must participate in a transgender's fantasy or you have committed unlawful bias against them. Can we make a law that everyone has to play along with my fantasies too?"
This brave anon doesn't like a law that restricts her imaginary "right" to be abusive to people she doesn't like, so she makes up a fantasy about what the law is "really" about. I love it - it's recursive!
Did you guys hear the latest?
Apparently, George Bush ordered Al Gore to come to the White House today and took him into the Oval Office and yelled at him for 40minutes for trying to scare the Americans about global warming.
Andrea- not anon
See, it is N. anon who changes the subject and does not address reality. Oh, well, nothing new for us here.
"We all see this. Take your neighbor, the card-carrying CRC member, anti-gay, up in arms over the idea that you won't be able to discriminate against transgender people in our county any more -- go over and ask them what they think about abortion, about the war, about the death penalty, about immigration. You know what they'll say before you even ask.
Maybe somebody here will be able to explain how those things go together."
The fear of death.
The exploitation of the fear of death.
The religious and political exploitation of the fear of death.
The religious and political definition of fear.
No need to fear death, as long as you fear this – over here...
And remember that you’re saved, but only as long as you fear those whom we tell you to. And if in the end we happen to be wrong, and you’ve deluded many, many others into the bowels of eternal pain and punishment, take heart in your salvation, for God will surely wipe your conscience clean. But only as long as you fear those whom we tell you to!
_
Where too can I sign up, so that I may also experience the embrace of such a just and loving God?
Oh never mind, here's God, I found Him.
Oooh, big problem with the premise-- I'm a liberal (well, a moderate by MoCo standards!) who favors the retention of the death penalty, personally opposes abortion (but favors the right to make the choice). I favor regulated immigration, but think it has been abused of late by the prevalence of undocumented immigrants. So am I conservative, since come of my beliefs exceed your boundaries? Your stereotypes are inflammatory, (admittedly, it's your blog, so it's your right....), counterproductive in that they stymy any effort to understand those with a point of view that differs from your own, and are so broad as to be almost useless.
Anon, agreeing that the death penalty may be useful, that there needs to be control over immigration, etc., is not the cluster I was talking about. Problems need to be solved.
Some people address them all at one package, not everybody, but some people. Maybe you aren't one of them.
JimK
There's a long history of rational conservatism going back to Burke and now best explicated, in my mind, by Andrew Sullivan. I have great respect for the thinkers of that tradition, including Michael Oakeshott and others.
They are not the issue, as they've been marginalized by the current sectarian Republican party. So those issues rarely get debated rationally. What we are left with, as we see on this blog, are hyperventilating radical Christian Dominionists, most of whom are not interested in any dialogue. You can easily see that by their lies, misrepresentations, changing of the subject, etc. Rarely do they get to their core beliefs, because they know those beliefs are repugnant to the vast majority of residents of this county. Occasionally we get a glimpse, and then we respond, but without any hope of a real conversation. As I've mentioned on a number of occasions I've invited some of their leaders to sit down for a discussion, and they've always been too afraid to accommodate me. Obviously because they know they could not defend themselves.
Wow, Dana! Just when we thought you were learning the value of civil discourse, you join up with Jim and launch into one of your hate-filled and bigoted rants. Will dissect this evening.
No you won't anonymous, you'll just spew hate, bigotry and irrationality like you always do.
Anon,
Civil discourse does not require one to abstain from describing the behavior we have all witnessed here. No one is saying that Dana's words are descriptive of everyone who expresses a contrary viewpoint, but they very accurately describe some. Since you are just another "anon," you may or may not be one of them.
To see an exception, in which there is actual back and forth discussion, check out the end of the "Ike signs" thread.
Andrea- not anon
N. Anon- don't you have a dog to kick or a wife to beat somewhere closer to home? How about just smacking yourself in the head?
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