Friday, July 24, 2009

The Birthers

This is a fascinating phenomenon: the Birthers. You've seen this video, right? The Republican Congressman from Delaware is holding a town hall meeting, and a lady starts waving her birth certificate around, demanding that we find out if President Obama is an American citizen, and people are cheering her on. Obama's birth records have been made public, his birth certificate has been studied, the local Hawaiian newspapers printed his birth announcement, there's no real question about whether he's an American citizen. Still, they believe.

The lady said something interesting in the town hall meeting that I can sort of identify with it. She said, "We want our country back!"

Well, lady, welcome to the club. The rest of us sat here for eight long years while our leaders attacked random foreign countries, tortured people, let a major, beautiful American city be destroyed by ineptitude, we saw our civil rights eroded, people jailed without charges, phone calls listened to without warrants, we watched the economy collapse under the weight of greed ... a lot of people "wanted our country back."

There is a way to get your country back. Win the election. That's what the Democrats did. They ran a candidate who could get more votes than your candidate. That's all there is to it, that's how "our country" works.

Now there are secessionist movements in many states -- Sarah Palin's husband is part of one, several states have introduced measures or made statements about seceding. The teabaggers model themselves after eighteenth century revolutionaries, the whole point is about overthrowing the government in the same way the American colonists overthrew the British. Fox commentators urge armed revolution, usually in slightly veiled terms, we have even heard them argue that a major terrorist attack would be good for the country. The anti-patriotism of the right is shocking, but not surprising.

Listen, people, you lost, that's all. The country isn't going communist, or socialist, or fascist, it's not being handed over to black people or wise Latinas or gay people or pacifists or atheists or [insert paranoid theory here] to do whatever they want with it. Some policies are going to change, because a new party is in power. It's not the end of the world, the Democrats waited while the Republicans ran the country into the ground and did not start talking about a secession or a revolution or encourage terrorist attacks. There were questions about George Bush's criminal record, his military record, his addictions, but nobody seriously suggested he was not eligible to be President. Even when he was jacked into office by questionable court rulings, Americans left and right accepted the rule of law. The Democrats lost, and they turned their attention to the next election. That's just how the wheel turns.

Barack Obama is a natural-born American citizen. There is no reason to think he's not. Those who oppose him -- and this is turning out to be a large part of the Republican base, including several powerful spokespersons -- are grasping at anything, no matter how absurd, to undermine his Presidency. Having lost the election by a landslide, they make insane assertions about Obama's legitimacy in the office.

The fact is, in America we elect our leaders. The election was last year. Your guy lost. It's only three more years till your next shot at it.

22 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim

You're two tons of fun, man.

You really outdid yourself this time:

"There were questions about George Bush's criminal record, his military record, his addictions, but nobody seriously suggested he was not eligible to be President."

Bush didn't have a criminal record so that's slander.

But Democrats "seriously suggested" that Bush's electionm in 2000 was illegitimate every chance they got. Said he wasn't really elected and stole the election.

They weren't quite as vociferous after they were humiliated in 2004 but you still have stray lunatics like Anon-B who recently suggested here Bush won then because of fraud in Ohio.

If Al Gore had graciously accepted his defeat in 2000, you might be able to complain but his actions there began a whole new era in American politics where every close election has to go to court.

"rest of us sat here for eight long years"

You call that sitting. Seemed to me like you were running around and whining.

"while our leaders attacked random foreign countries,"

You mean like Iraq, whose leader unrandomly fired on our planes enforcing the terms of a peace treaty and tried to make the world think they were building WMD?

Or Afghanistan, whose wacko leaders harbored terrorists who destroyed our tallest two buildings, attacked and cause major damage to our military headquarters and killed 3000 of our citizens in the broad daylight and publicly threatened to do more of the same?

How did Bush randomly choose these innocent leaders for attack?

"tortured people,"

Actually, a certain type of person. Vicious terrorists who were unrepentant.

We probably went too far but it was mild treatment compared to what goes in the countries those guys support.

"let a major, beautiful American city be destroyed by ineptitude,"

Are we talking New Orleans? It was a capital of vice, corruption and sleaze only challenged by Vegas itself.

"we saw our civil rights eroded,"

Really? Can you tell me what civil right you lost?

"people jailed without charges,"

Those were POWs. No other country has ever tried them. Why should we trailblaze in giving our enemies their day in court?

"phone calls listened to without warrants,"

Oh, brother.

"we watched the economy collapse under the weight of greed"

Yeah, those greedy guys who lent money to low income people to help them buy their homes.

Clinton deregulated the banks and Barney Frank pushed Fannie Mae to "roll the dice" on subsidized housing.

The economy collapsed about a year and a half after Democrats took over Congress for the first time in quarter of a century.

Coincidence?

"There is a way to get your country back. Win the election. That's what the Democrats did. They ran a candidate who could get more votes than your candidate. That's all there is to it, that's how "our country" works."

By media bias? Obama basically had most of the fourth press working on his campaign.

How could he lose?

"Now there are secessionist movements in many states -- Sarah Palin's husband is part of one, several states have introduced measures or made statements about seceding."


There always have been. That's not a "nwo".

"The teabaggers model themselves after eighteenth century revolutionaries, the whole point is about overthrowing the government in the same way the American colonists overthrew the British. Fox commentators urge armed revolution, usually in slightly veiled terms, we have even heard them argue that a major terrorist attack would be good for the country."

And you complain about conspiracy theorists?

"The country isn't going communist, or socialist,"

Actually, Obama used the financial crisis to begin pushing a socialists agenda.

Little doubt about that.

July 24, 2009 1:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"or fascist, it's not being handed over to black people"

Always trying to piggyback on racial equality, aren't you?

No credible republicans have said blacks are taking over the country.

Obviously, feel it's in their best interest to keep racism alive perpetually.

"some policies are going to change, because a new party is in power. It's not the end of the world, the Democrats waited while the Republicans ran the country into the ground and did not start talking about a secession or a revolution or encourage terrorist attacks."

Republicans are not acting any worse than Democrats.

You'll notice that Republicans haven't pulled any of the antics over the Supreme Court nomination that Democrats always do.

Sir Barry O actually voted against Roberts' confirmation.

"Barack Obama is a natural-born American citizen. There is no reason to think he's not."

Actually, he hasn't produced his original birth certificate and his grandmother told reporters before she died that she remembers him being born in Kenya.

July 24, 2009 1:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you read all of the birth certificate information surrounding Obama, it really does appear as though he is not a natural born citizen, as the Constitution requires. He has produced a certificate from Hawaii that Hawaii gives to babies who are born outside of the US. It is NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, a certificate of live birth. All evidence points to the fact that Obama was born in Kenya and then moved to Hawaii. One odd thing -- Obama went overseas when he was a young man, and entered a country that, at the time, was not allowing Americans to enter. The theory is -- he used his Kenyan birth certificate.

Obama has spent over a million dollars in lawsuits over this issue. If he really does have a genuine birth certificate, then why in the world would he not produce it? It doesn't make any sense. Without his birth certificate, he wouldn't even be able to pass a military clearance! And here he is -- the head of our military!

You know....don't pee on my leg and then call it rain....

July 24, 2009 2:22 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

Here's how America's most trusted news anchor sees the birthers.

And here's FactCheck.org's report on the birthers' nonsense published last year during the campaign.

Politico reports even Liz Cheney has told the birthers, Obama is a citizen:

Liz Cheney: No question on citizenship

Liz Cheney is taking some heat today for, amid a discussion on Larry King Live of the fringe movement that doubts Obama's citizenship, appearing to defend it.

"People are fundamentally uncomfortable, and they're fundamentally increasingly uncomfortable with an American president who seems to be afraid to defend America," she said "The kind of thing you saw on this video is indicative of sort of a general feeling of discomfort."

"She refuses to say, 'This is ludicrous,' because she actually wants to encourage these people to believe this," Democratic consultant James Carville shot back on CNN.

I asked Cheney about the subject, and she emailed:

I don't have any question about Barack Obama's right to be President of the United States.

My concern is with his policies. I am deeply troubled about the path he is taking this country down -- massively expanding the size of government, weakening our national defenses, increasing taxes on all Americans and nationalizing health care. These are dangerous policies for the nation.

The video that triggered the question.

July 24, 2009 3:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

fantastic, Anon-B

the media's on his side

still doesn't explain why he won't show people his birth certificate, why his grandmother said he was born in Kenya, why he travelled to lands that didn't take American passports as a child

July 24, 2009 3:37 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

the media's on his side

The State of Hawaii is **not** the media. The facts are on his side.

Listen to the grandmother's full comment.

That's the problem with you conspiracy theorists, you ignore the facts you don't want to hear.

As Salon reported last year:

...One of the allegedly truly damning allegations some of the conspiracy theorists are pushing is that Obama's Kenyan grandmother said in a recent interview that she was there, in Kenya, for her grandson's birth.

During the interview, which was conducted through a translator by a street preacher named Ron McRae, Sarah Obama does in fact say she was present. But it's clear that there was a mistranslation, because as soon as McRae very excitedly starts to try to get additional details, the people on the other end of the line realize what's happened and say, over and over again, that Obama was born in the U.S.

For some reason, the transcripts of the interview that have been posted on various right-wing Web sites all seem to cut off right after Sarah Obama says she was there when her grandson was born. So does this YouTube video with the audio of the interview. But as The Economist points out, McRae also released the full audio, in which the key parts of the conversation can be heard. Here's part of it. (The other person speaking is translator Vitalis Akech Ogombe.)

MCRAE: When I come in December. I would like to come by the place, the hospital, where he was born. Could you tell me where he was born? Was he born in Mombasa?

OGOMBE: No, Obama was not born in Mombasa. He was born in America.

MCRAE: Whereabouts was he born? I thought he was born in Kenya.

OGOMBE: No, he was born in America, not in Mombasa.

MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was going to go by and see where he was born.

OGOMBE: Hawaii. Hawaii. Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii. In the state of Hawaii, where his father was also learning, there. The state of Hawaii.


About the birth certificate itself, KITV.com reported:

..."There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record," DOH Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said.

Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.

Fukino said that no state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama's certificate be handled differently from any other...


Good luck getting birthers elected in the future!

Glub glub glub

July 24, 2009 4:26 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

And until Obama produces a legitimate birth certificate, we don’t even know that he was at least 35 years old when he was elected.

For all we know, he might only be 12!

July 24, 2009 5:25 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Aunt Bea: “Glub glub glub”

LOLOL, that’s a keeper.

July 24, 2009 5:29 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Anonymous, you're way off base.

If you read all of the birth certificate information surrounding Obama, it really does appear as though he is not a natural born citizen, as the Constitution requires.

There's no real information, just rumor and ignorance.

He has produced a certificate from Hawaii that Hawaii gives to babies who are born outside of the US.

Actually, A Certificate of Live Birth(COLB) is given out as a certified copy of their birth record. While it can be obtained by babies born outside the US, those babies born outside the US don't get to have "Honolulu" written on their Certificate of Live Birth. That would be illegally confering natural born status, and there's no way the feds would stand for that. The reason Obama's COLB has "Honolulu" on it is because that's where he was born, and that's what they have on file in their system.

Sidenote: If we cannot trust the recordkeeping of the Hawaiian government, I fail to see how the "original" can be any more legitimate.


"It is NOT, by any stretch of the imagination, a certificate of live birth."

Then why does it say Certificate of Live Birth? Hawaii law, and federal law, treat this COLB as they would any Birth Certificate from any other state. Or do you think the Hawaii government loves wasting taxpayer money printing useless documents?

If they were issuing documents that were not legal, there would be a larger issue that we would've heard something about before now, or at the very least now.

Think about it, at some point someone from Hawaii would move to some other state and have to present their COLB, and if it wasn't legal, they'd raise a stink.

"All evidence points to the fact that Obama was born in Kenya and then moved to Hawaii."

There is no such evidence. There are no travel records for his mother, and there are birth announcements from local Hawaiian papers the week he was born in Honolulu. He has produced a legally valid document that has been vouched for by both the Hawaii Department of Health and Republican Hawaiian Governor (and McCain voter) Linda Lingle.

"One odd thing -- Obama went overseas when he was a young man, and entered a country that, at the time, was not allowing Americans to enter. The theory is -- he used his Kenyan birth certificate."

This is a flat out lie. There was no travel ban. There are articles written by American reporters, like this one, visiting Pakistan in 1981. There was no ban. There was a travel advisory, but NO BAN.

July 24, 2009 6:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jason D. is right. I'm the anon who got the terminology wrong. Obama does have a Certificate of Live Birth, and he's trying to pass that off as a valid birth certificate.

After all of the money that Obama has spent to keep this from the public -- I'll believe that he has a birth certificate when I see it.

July 24, 2009 7:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Been there, done that.

July 24, 2009 7:17 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Jason D. is right. I'm the anon who got the terminology wrong. Obama does have a Certificate of Live Birth, and he's trying to pass that off as a valid birth certificate.

According to Hawaii Law
Statue 338.13, any certified copies of the original document can serve the same purpose as the original document.
"(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.

In other words, it's as good as the original.

What if it's been lost? He's still a citizen, and the Hawaii government has proof on file. It's not like his presidency is invalid if he doesn't have his original birth certificate anymore. People lose stuff, funny thing though, the government keeps records, and will give you copies so you can go on about your life.

"After all of the money that Obama has spent to keep this from the public"

There is no proof he has spent any money on this, or what that dollar amount is.

There is proof, however, that those challenging him are paying.

-- I'll believe that he has a birth certificate when I see it.

Talk to the secretary of state for your state, it's their job to certify candidates for the ballot in your state. You're telling me all 50 of them didn't do their job? The president is elected by the states, not directly by the people. If the state failed to do their job, take it up with them.

The constitution says nothing about birth certificates:

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

I have yet to see one SHRED of proof that shows Obama is not a citizen, just a bunch of speculation, some lies, and complete ignorance as to how our laws work. He may not have satisfied YOUR requirements, but he has satisfied the actual requirements to hold office. Just because you make up this whole "I have to see your original birth certificate or it doesn't count" crap is just 2nd grade logic.

For this conspiracy to be true, someone has to be able to see the future to falsify his birth records way back when he was born -- and also ALSO have Clinton, Palin, McCain, The GOP, the Democrats, the Independents, the Green Party, the States of Hawaii and Illinois all conspiring to make this happen, or someone has to have invented a time machine.

Or he's the president and you're sore losers. Which seems more plausible?

July 24, 2009 7:48 PM  
Anonymous Robert said...

Apparently our anonymous thinks New Orleans should have drowned, so the Bush administrations ineptitude in allowing that was justified by the city's 'wickedness.'


Was the Lower Ninth Ward really a capital of corruption, vice and sleaze? How do you feel about Gretna, Metarie and Bayou la Batre?

What about San Francisco? Atlanta? DC? I'm glad you're not God.

As for the birthers: does one need to have been born on US soil to be President, or simply be a natural born citizen? That is, can one be the child of a a US citizen born overseas, thus a citizen by the ius sanguinis? I thought it was the latter.

July 25, 2009 7:21 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Robert, "Natural Born" is defined by our laws as having been born on US soil (states or territories). McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone - which was US soil at the time. Obama was born in Honolulu, which also counts, being that it's a State.

July 25, 2009 7:36 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...

The birther's keep saying things like "think for yourself".

Well here's a few thoughts:

-If a COLB isn't a legal document, why on earth do they bother making it, signing it, and putting a seal on it? Is Hawaii really bored or something?

-If we can't trust the word of the Dept of Health, the Governor, and the document they pledge is authentic, why would a birth certificate from the same corrupt and unreliable state be any more trustworthy?

-If the Hawaiian Government issues COLB and lets you change your birthplace to any old town or city in Hawaii you feel like, then they are illegally conferring natural born citizen status and should be shut down immediately. Their records would have to be investigated thoroughly, and again, why would another document, issued by the same government be valid?

-The Secretary of State of each of the 50 states is charged with certifying the ballot. If Obama is not a natural born citizen, then 50 government officials neglected to do their job, should be fired, and we have any even larger problem on our hands.

-If the birth certificate is the only real proof, what happens if someone loses it, it's stolen, burned, or destroyed somehow? Is that it, do we just kick them out of the country? If so, please explain why the government lets you replace ANY form of identification with a certified copy, or a reprint of the original usually for a fee. Is every state government illegally collecting fees for bogus, invalid documents?

-Finally, where is Bush, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, McCain, Regan, Carter, or any of the other president's original birth certificates. I have yet to see theirs. With Obama, I've seen a certified document, I didn't see anything for any of those other presidents and candidates. For all I know their parents ran over to Canada or Mexico to have them. And why didn't anyone "uphold the constitution" by demanding to see their birth certificates?


The answer to all these questions is simple. Barack Hussein Obama has a scary muslim-sounding name and is not white. He's not what narrow-minded white people consider a "real" American, especially because he's a liberal, and especially because he has a quality education. It's about people refusing to engage with reality, people who thought enough Americans were narrow-minded bigots and there's no way they'd elect someone like Barack. Even if we do see the Birth Certificate tomorrow, that will be called a forgery, too, and this will continue to go on and on and on until someone just shoots the president so all you people who are scared of someone different than you can feel better.

July 25, 2009 7:52 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

Obama's Birth Certificate: Why the controversy won't go away

ED NOTE: Front Page Magazine today today posted the Hawai`i Free Press article "Barack Obama, born in Hawaii"--debunking conspiracy theories swirling around Barack Obama's Hawaii birth certificate. The following was posted by an anonymous commenter "DadBode" in the comments section and we thought it was so spot-on and funny that it deserves wider exposure. For readers working in State offices who have taken birth-certificate-related phone calls, this should be of special interest.

by "DadBode"

This is why:

Birther: "Oh why won't Barack Obama release his birth certificate? If only he did that simple little thing, we could put this whole matter to rest. And it would only cost him ten dollars."

Rational Person (RP): "Didn't you see the birth certificate he posted online?"

Birther: "Anyone could have Photoshopped that. In fact, I saw an anonymous guy on the Internet claim that he could prove it was faked. He's an expert in 'instructional media.'"

RP: "You do realize that 'instructional media' doesn't have anything to do with document analysis, right?"

Birther: "Regardless, it's still fake. If Obama truly had nothing to hide, he'd release his long-form birth certificate, not this computer printout."

RP: "How should he release it? If he simply posted a scan online, wouldn't you accuse it of being faked?"

Birther: "Oh, certainly. Anything he produces shouldn't be trusted unless it's reviewed by a competent authority, like a judge."

RP: "So if Obama obtained his long-form birth certificate, published it, had a judge review it, and then the judge announced that it was legit and he was born in Hawaii, that would be enough? You'd give up arguing that his election is illegitimate, stop filing lawsuits, and concede that he's eligible to be President?"

Birther: "Hardly. For all we know, Obama's parents could have lied to Hawaiian officials, and claimed he was born in Hawaii, when he was actually born in Kenya. Or Canada. For all we know, Hawaiian officials themselves might be in on the cover-up."

RP: "What if it can be proven beyond a doubt that the birth certificate is real and accurate, and that he was born in Hawaii. Let's say there's a video of John F. Kennedy himself playing midwife to Ann Dunham. Would that settle the matter?"

Birther: "It'd settle the matter of where he was born. But that doesn't mean he's a natural-born citizen and eligible to be President."

RP: "Why?"

Birther: "Because before he was born, his mother married a British citizen. That means she gave up her American citizenship even before he was born. And Obama can't be a natural-born citizen if neither of his parents were American citizens."

RP: "So you're begging Obama to release his birth certificate, even though you admit it won't actually stop your complaints."

Birther: "That's right."

RP: "Well, what if I can show you that American citizens don't give up their American citizenship when they marry foreigners? Will that put this to rest?"

Birther: "Oh, no. Even if I accepted that he was born in Hawaii, and that his mother was still an American citizen, his father was still a Kenyan and British citizen, and that means Obama inherited dual citizenship and thus wasn't a natural-born citizen. So he can't be President."

RP: "I see. For the sake of argument, then, let's say that I could show you that there's no requirement that a natural-born citizen be born of two U.S. citizens. Would that satisfy you?"

Birther: "Sorry, but no. Even if the birth certificate proves he was born in Hawaii, and he could show that his mother was a U.S. citizen when he was born, and that his father's citizenship didn't disqualify him, there's still the matter of Indonesia."

July 25, 2009 9:47 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

RP: "What does Indonesia have to do with anything?"

Birther: "When Obama's mother married Lolo Soetoro, she gave up her U.S. citizenship, and by proxy, Obama's U.S. citizenship. So he can't be President."

RP: "No, it doesn't work that way. Didn't we already cover this with her first marriage?"

Birther: "It doesn't matter. Even if her marriage didn't invalidate his citizenship, when Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, he ceased to be a U.S. natural-born citizen. So he can't be President." RP: "A minor child can't surrender his U.S. citizenship that way. Besides, there's no evidence that he was adopted in the first place."

Birther: "Even if that's the case, he's still not in the clear. Because when he traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on his Indonesian passport, he gave up his U.S. citizenship."

RP: "Apart from the fact that that wouldn't have sacrificed his citizenship, do you actually have any direct evidence that he in fact did use an Indonesian passport?"

Birther: "Not direct evidence. But American passport holders weren't allowed into Pakistan in 1981."

RP: "Do you have any evidence that that is actually true about travel to Pakistan in 1981?"

Birther: "No."

RP: "I see. OK, if you put aside the passport, would you concede that he's eligible to be President?"

Birther: "Still no. When Obama was adopted, his name was legally changed to 'Barry Soetoro.' There's no proof he ever changed his name back, but he ran for President as 'Barack Obama.' And that violates election law. I will never accept his Presidency until I see the documentation where he changed his name back to Obama."

RP: "That's impossible. How can he possibly produce that documentation, when he never changed his name away from Obama in the first place? What proof is there that he was ever legally adopted or changed his name? And even if he was adopted, what possible reason would there be to legally change his first name to a nickname?"

Birther: "A school application in Indonesia says his last name was 'Soetoro.' They take those applications very seriously in Indonesia, so this is solid legal proof that he was adopted and had a name change."

July 25, 2009 9:47 AM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

RP: "And the fact that the same application says he was born in Hawaii?"

Birther: "That was a mistake."

RP: "OK, so to recap, you wanted Obama to release a birth certificate, but when he did, you accused it of being a forgery? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And you say that if he simply shared his long-form birth certificate with the public, that could be forged too? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "So you want him to release his long-form birth certificate and to have that birth certificate reviewed by a judge, to satisfy his critics and answer the questions they're asking? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if the judge affirms that the birth certificate is legitimate and it says his place of birth was Hawaii, you say it might be falsified, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And even if he proves he was born in Hawaii, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother's first marriage, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that the marriage isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his father's citizenship, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that his father's citizenship isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother's second marriage, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that his mother's second marriage isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his supposed adoption, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that he didn't give up his citizenship via adoption, you claim that he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his 1981 travel to Pakistan, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that he didn't give up his citizenship via passport, and even when you run out of citizenship arguments completely, you then claim his election is illegitimate because his legal surname is Soetoro, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "So you want to know why Obama won't take the simple measure of releasing his birth certificate, when you already have at least eight consecutive fall-back arguments you'll make if he does so, whereby you'll continue to insist that he's ineligible for the Presidency even after he proves that he was born in Hawaii?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "Y'know, if I were Obama, I think I'd save my ten dollars too."

July 25, 2009 9:47 AM  
Blogger Katie said...

Interestingly enough, in the video, the woman describes a hospital certificate - not a birth certificate. Hospital certificates do not hold the legal standing of official birth certificates.

Furthermore the United States doesn't issue birth certificates. Individual states do. The state of Hawaii has made it very clear that Obama has an official birth certificate showing that he was born in the United States.

The "birthers" are basically nutty racists.

July 26, 2009 8:02 AM  
Anonymous Robert said...

Jason

I believe, by what's known as the Ius Sanguinis (Right of Blood) that the children of US citizens born on foreign soil are also American citizens, and they are 'natural born' not naturalized citizens, thereby being eligible to be President.

rrjr

July 26, 2009 2:06 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Robert,
With some more searching I can't seem to find anything clearly stating that. It seems suggested that if both parents are US Citizens, yes, but if one is not, or hasn't been a citizen long enough then the answer may not be "yes".
What is true, regardless, is that any child born in the US, regardless of their parents(so long as they are not foreign dignitaries) is a natural born citizen. It's part of what makes the immigration issue complicated. Since many illegals have had children, if we deport the parents we split up families and add to our already lackluster adoption/foster care system. If we deport everyone we're also deporting our own, legal, citizens as well.

July 26, 2009 6:23 PM  
Anonymous Aunt Bea said...

Birthers are like Charlie Brown's neighbor, Lucy van Pelt. We can always count on them to remove the ball just as the kicker is charging.

Next up: "Dr. Tavitz Psychiatric Help: 5 cents" booth.

July 27, 2009 4:15 PM  

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