Instructions for Disruption
Almost four years ago we talked here on this blog about "the third group," which made dialogue between liberal and conservative members of the community nearly impossible. As we worked on a new sex education curriculum for our community, it was clear that some parents would prefer a more direct, factual, thorough approach, while others would prefer modesty, understatement, and leaving the bulk of sex education to parents. These two views can be discussed, boundaries can be negotiated, and the school district could have worked out a curriculum that was satisfactory to both groups.
But there was a "third group." The third group doesn't want communication, it wants disruption. The third group is so sure that its own views are correct that they feel it is their right -- they feel it is their responsibility -- to interrupt discourse between serious participants. It isn't just our community or our controversy, a perfect example of this strategy at work can be seen HERE, where a crowd disrupts a talk by a Congressman to assert that the President is not a native born American.
A memo has emerged, instructing these "third groups," aka teabaggers, birthers, etc., in how to take the discourse off course. It explains how to infiltrate a town hall meeting, ask off-topic questions, shout out comments during a speaker's talk, how to get the press to report on them instead of the actual presentation. Four years ago they had not fixated on the "socialist agenda" as the object of their hatred, our local nuts were concentrated on the "gay agenda," but whatever, the same, the point is that there is an evil conspiracy that must by opposed by nonsensical noise-making, misconstrual, and disruption.
Think Progress has a pdf of the memo. Here is a transcription of the text of the memo itself, there are news articles attached which I did not transcribe.
This is not news, the memo has been online for a few days, but this element seems focally important to understanding how political policy has deteriorated in this country. I'm sure there are some typos in this, I will try to fix them if I see them.
But there was a "third group." The third group doesn't want communication, it wants disruption. The third group is so sure that its own views are correct that they feel it is their right -- they feel it is their responsibility -- to interrupt discourse between serious participants. It isn't just our community or our controversy, a perfect example of this strategy at work can be seen HERE, where a crowd disrupts a talk by a Congressman to assert that the President is not a native born American.
A memo has emerged, instructing these "third groups," aka teabaggers, birthers, etc., in how to take the discourse off course. It explains how to infiltrate a town hall meeting, ask off-topic questions, shout out comments during a speaker's talk, how to get the press to report on them instead of the actual presentation. Four years ago they had not fixated on the "socialist agenda" as the object of their hatred, our local nuts were concentrated on the "gay agenda," but whatever, the same, the point is that there is an evil conspiracy that must by opposed by nonsensical noise-making, misconstrual, and disruption.
Think Progress has a pdf of the memo. Here is a transcription of the text of the memo itself, there are news articles attached which I did not transcribe.
This is not news, the memo has been online for a few days, but this element seems focally important to understanding how political policy has deteriorated in this country. I'm sure there are some typos in this, I will try to fix them if I see them.
Political Action Memo
We in Fairfield County Connecticut conducted an action at Congressman Jim Himes's Town Hal] meeting in May 2009. We believe there are some best practices which emerged from the event and our experience, which could be useful to activists in just about any district where their Congressperson has supported the socialist agenda of the Democrat leadership in Washington.
Our objective was to "pack the hall" with as many of our people ready to challenge the Congressman, put him on the defensive, and give him a reality check from we-the-people. We were successful in organizing about 30 people and we spread out among the crowd of about 150 people in the hall. We used some techniques early on which immediately made Himes uncomfortable, and several of us got our chance at the microphone to ask questions. Himes clearly left the hall staggered, as the meeting, billed as a progress report for his economic solutions, clearly did not go as he had planned.
We humbly submit the following as a potential playbook to conduct similar events to achieve similar outcomes in most any targeted district.
Organize for Success
- Alert people in the district to watch for the first announcement of a Town Hall- there may be as little as a week's notice. Have a central person advised so that the alert can be distributed to as many potential supporters as possible.
- The organizer should go to www.projectvotesmart.org and obtain the Rep's voting record. It can be copied, pasted into Word, cleaned up, highlighted and readied for distribution.
- Questions should be prepared. Most pols are pros at deflecting off-the-cuff questions. The questions should contain facts and numbers (which are embarrassing and damning to the Rep and his voting record). They can run up to five sentences or so - you will not be cut off at that length. The questions should put the Rep on the defensive and demand a specific answer. Also, anticipate the evasive, deflective answer and be prepared with a quick follow-up. The questions should personalize the Rep e.g. why did YOU vote for a budget that immediately carried with it a $1.7 trillion deficit? Use the Alinsky playbook of which the Left is so fond: freeze it, attack it, personalize it, and polarize it. You only need to distribute five or six well constructed questions. There are some questions attached here which apply to most any Democrat that is supporting the Socialist agenda.
- The voting record and questions and any relevant articles which would Place the Congressman on the defensive should be distributed to all indicating a willingness to attend. People should be asked to meet in the parking lot of the hall a half hour before the scheduled start.
- Should you seek visibility for your group voicing opposition to the Rep's voting record and agenda , you could schedule a press conference 20 minutes before the Town Hall is scheduled to begin. Write and distribute a press release to local newspapers and TV. Have someone available to read a prepared statement and answer questions. We actually issued the press release and were prepared for the conference. However, the media were following Himes and did not show up until the Town Hall started. We distributed the statement to some of the people arriving at the hall. Copies of both the press release and our statement are attached here.
Meet and Deploy
- The team should meet outside the hall with voting record and questions distributed. Everyone should be asked to use one ofthe questions or a similar one that boxes in the Rep. The team should also be advised to spread out inside the hall but should try to get seats in the front half. The Rep wIll inevitably start picking people toward the front.
- The use of protest signs outside is an option if people bring them. However, those without signs should go in the hall early enough to get good seats. Those wanting the Rep to see the signs will end up entering the hall at the last minute and will likely end up in the back with less chance to be picked for a question. Do not bring the signs into the hall if you want any chance to be picked for a question.
Inside the Hall
- Spread out in the hall and try to be in the front half. The objective is to put the Rep on the defensive with your questions and follow-up. The Rep should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington. They need to leave the hall with some doubts about their agenda. The other objective is to illustrate for the balance of the audience that the national leadership is acting against our founders' principles which are on the other side of the debate - and show them that there are a lot of solid citizens in the district who oppose the socialist approach to the nation's challenges. We want the independent thinkers to leave the hall with doubts about the Democrat solutions continually proposed by the national leadership.
- You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early. If he blames Bush for something or offers other excuses -- call him on it, yell back and have someone else tallow-up with a shout-out. Don't carry on and make a scene - just short intermittent shout outs. The purpose is to make him uneasy early on and set the tone for the hall as clearly informal, and free-wheeling. It will also embolden others who agree with us to call out and challenge with tough questions. The goal is to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda. If he says something outrageous, stand up and shout out and sit right down. Look for these opportunities before he even takes questions.
- When the formal Q&A session begins get all your hands up and keep them up -- be persistent throughout the entire session. Keep body language neutral and look positive to improve chances of being selected. When called on, ask a specific prepared question that puts the onus on him to answer. It can be a long question including lots of statistics/facts. You wi1l not be interrupted from reading a solid question. If you ramble on too long without a focus, you will be stopped. After the Rep answers, or more likely diverts or dodges, be prepared with a follow-up -- take the initiative and you will be able to follow-up. The balance of the group should applaud when the question is asked, further putting the Rep on the defensive. If the Rep tries a particularly odious diversion, someone from the group should yell out to answer the question. These tactics will clearly rattle the Rep and illustrate some degree of his ineptness to the balance of the audience.
In Summary
When the session ends, those who asked effective questions should seek out any press remaining at the hall, providing their names for attribution -- you may be quoted in the press article. If the gameplan above is implemented the resulting impact will likely be:
- A Rep and his staff set back on their heels, recognizing that people in their district can see past the charade and are angry about the socialist agenda, infringement of our liberties, and profligate spending. After a couple of these sessions one of the weaker ones may consider swaying from the party voting line.
- Audience members expecting business-as-usual go home recognizing that many of their neighbors oppose the agenda, see the dire financial impact, and see a Rep exposed to some degree as a charlatan, and put on the defensive.
- Articles appearing in the local press will amplify the above points to the local community, rather than being puffpieces for the local Representative. Two local newspaper articles about the Himes Town Hall are also attached.
We believe we achieved the desired impact with a modest amount of planning and the dedication of only a few hours to attend the event. We will be traveling the state to provide a similar reality-check for all five of the Reps, and of course Chris Dodd. Just imagine what we can achieve if we see to it that every Representative in the nation who has supported the socialist agenda has a similar experience!
In liberty,
Bob MacGuffie
bobmac@rightprinciples.com
www.RightPrinciples.com
posted by JimK at 2:13 PM
58 Comments:
And don't forget that in addition to the tea baggers memo, we have a right wing Talk Radio Campaign [and House Minority Leader John Boehner and Republican Policy Committee Chairman Thaddeus McCotter] Frightening Seniors with lies about what the healthcare bill actually says.
These leaders do not want an honest debate. The Grand Obstructionist Party wants to maintain the status quo.
liberal columnist gets it right:
"James von Brunn, who is alleged to have opened fire and killed a guard at the Holocaust Memorial Museum, is apparently a consummate bigot.
His former wife said that his hatred of blacks and Jews "ate him alive like a cancer," so it might seem appropriate that in addition to having been indicted last week for murder and gun-law violations, he was also charged with hate crimes.
At age 89, he proves that you are never too old to hate."
"He also proves the stupidity of hate-crime laws.
A prime justification for such laws is that some crimes really affect a class of people.
The hate-crimes bill recently passed by the Senate puts it this way: "A prominent characteristic of a violent crime motivated by bias is that it devastates not just the actual victim . . . but frequently savages the community sharing the traits that caused the victim to be selected."
No doubt.
But how is this crime different from most other crimes?
First, let us consider the question of which "community" von Brunn was allegedly attempting to devastate.
He rushed the Holocaust museum, which memorializes the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis and their enablers.
There could be no more poignant symbol for the Jewish community.
Yet von Brunn killed not a Jew but an African American -- security guard Stephen Tyrone Johns.
So which community was affected by this weird, virtually suicidal act?
Was it the Jewish community or the black community?
Since von Brunn hated both, you could argue that it does not matter.
But since I would guess that neither community now gives the incident much thought, the answer might well be "neither one."
So what is the point of piling on hate crimes to what von Brunn has allegedly done?
Beats me.
He already faces -- at age 89, remember -- a life sentence and, possibly, the death penalty.
The real purpose of hate-crime laws is to reassure politically significant groups -- blacks, Hispanics, Jews, gays, etc. -- that someone cares about them and takes their fears seriously.
That's nice.
It does not change the fact, though, that what's being punished is thought or speech.
Johns is dead no matter what von Brunn believes.
The penalty for murder is severe, so it's not as if the crime is not being punished.
The added "late hit" of a hate crime is without any real consequence, except as a precedent for the punishment of belief or speech.
Slippery slopes are supposedly all around us, I know, but this one is the real McCoy.
Let us assume that the "community" is really affected by what we call a hate crime.
I am Jewish.
But even with von Brunn's attack, I am more affected by a mugging in my neighborhood that might keep me from taking a walk at night than I am by a shooting at the Holocaust museum.
If there's a murder in a park, I'll stay out of it for months.
If there's a rape, women will stay out of the park.
If there's another and another, women will know that a real hater is loose.
Rape, though, is not a hate crime.
Why not?
I doubt that any group of drunken toughs is going to hesitate in their pummeling of a gay individual or an African American or a Jew on account of it being a hate crime.
If they are not already deterred by the conventional penalties -- prison, etc. -- then why would additional penalties deter them?
And if, in fact, they kept their mouths shut, refrained from the N-word or the F-word or the K-word, and simply made the beating or the killing seem one triggered by dissing or some other reason, then they would not be accused of hate -- merely of murder or some such trifle.
If, though, they gave vent to their thoughts, they would be in for real trouble.
For the most part, hate-crime legislation is just a sop for politically influential interest groups -- yet another area in which liberals, traditionally sensitive to civil liberties issues, have chosen to mollify an entire population at the expense of the individual and endorse discredited reasoning about deterrence.
In von Brunn's case, the hate-crime counts are an obscenity.
To suggest that the effects of this attack were felt only by the Jewish or the black communities -- and not, for instance, by your average Washington tourist -- ghettoizes both its real and purported victims.
It's a consequence that von Brunn himself might applaud."
Nice unattributed cutting and pasting Anon.
Back to the topic of this thread, which is the mob intimidation tactics of the GOP and right wingers. They want only one thing, for President Obama to fail. They want him to fail to rescue the economy, to fix healthcare so we're all covered, to care for the environment, to repair our tarnished international reputation, basically to right every wrong that Bush/Cheney committed.
Protesters disrupted Congressman Lloyd Doggett's (D-TX) town hall meeting, chanting the GOP's same old slogan, "JUST SAY NO"
The Statesman reports:
Health care protest set up by partisans, Doggett says
Critics of health care reform say demonstration reflects unease over health care reform.
By W. Gardner Selby
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Tuesday, August 04, 2009
U.S. Rep. Lloyd Doggett said Monday that a weekend showdown with constituents in South Austin over national health care proposals was a "mob" scene driven by Republicans and Libertarians intent on derailing universal coverage.
Doggett, an Austin Democrat, left his Saturday "Bend hisEar" event in a grocery store parking lot as people opposed to Democratic health care proposals chanted, "Just say no" and "Don't vote for Doggett."
Doggett said the incident steeled his commitment to change.
"It is a desperation tactic," he said, adding that such a protest "combined with all of the misinformation coming out on cable television and through a number of Web sites is an indication that (advocates of health care reform) have to do a more effective job of communicating."...
Congressman Doggett's interview with Chris Matthews
Jewish LGBT and allied communities in DC hold vigil about Tel Aviv shooting and youth center
I believe that's the Dupont Circle fountain in the video.
Speaking of hate, I was stopped by a carload of young men on Massachusetts Ave on Sunday night, looking for Dupon Circle, since that was where they could go "beat on some gays."
This statement, by the way, is not a hate crime.
They're not just in Texas, the state with 5 cosponsors of the 10 of the birther bill in Congress.
The Huffington Post reports:
Right Wingers Wreak Havoc on Philadelphia Town Meeting
Philadelphia, PA -- August 2: This afternoon, at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia, I saw the face of ignorance and hate--and it wasn't pretty.
When Health and Human Services Secretary, Kathleen Sebelius and Senator Arlen Specter (D-PA) came to the National Constitution Center to answer questions about health care reform, they were greeted by an overflow crowd of approximately 400 people, the majority of whom were supporters with legitimate questions.
Unfortunately, though, a well-organized, belligerent and loud group of right-wingers stood in the aisles and across the back and disrupted the town meeting throughout. They yelled, shouted and jeered, and it was clear that they were not there to participate, but instead to try to disrupt the meeting and make it difficult as possible for anyone else to ask questions. They jeered from the moment the director of the Constitution Center stood to welcome everyone. For a few days leading up to the town meeting, e-mails circulated around Philadelphia warning that the "tea-baggers" were planning to protest the meeting and, although there were fewer of them than there were supporters--they made more noise shouting about "socialism," "abortion," and "assisted suicide."
To show their support, the audience stood and applauded Secretary Sebelius and Senator Specter numerous times. There were people in the crowd wearing purple t-shirts with gold and white lettering that said "Health Care Now We Can't Wait."
...When I asked one of the belligerents why he and his companions wouldn't stop shouting so others could speak and be heard, he shouted that it was his right to yell under "the first amendment." I then asked why he couldn't respect the first amendment rights of others and he answered by glaring at me and walking away.
After the question and answer segment ended, I asked three of the boisterous opponents of health care why they do not support it and one of them pulled a copy of the Constitution from his hand and waving it, said, "Health care is not covered in the Constitution." Their arguments were illogical and based on lack of knowledge and an abundance of fear. I commented to them that they were being had, that they were working against their own best interests and they kept waving the Constitution.
The fury and rancor in the faces of the right wingers at the town meeting made it clear that this was not about health care only. It is about fear and raw anger, already inside them, now directed toward the health care debate. They see defeating health care legislation as their opportunity to re-visit the Presidential election.
Police may have lead in Tel Aviv shootings; possibly a personal feud
Haaretz notes that ultra-orthodox neighbors came to the vigil to express condolences.
The real tragedy of the organized disruption is that over the long run it is practically guaranteed to shut down direct, face-to-face communication between an elected official and his constituents.
There is no law that says a congressman has to go out and have public meetings where concerned constituents can have the rare opportunity to express their needs and desires directly with significant lawmakers. Congressmen and women do it by choice – no doubt in part to help increase their exposure with the voters, but at least some with genuine interest in serving their constituents.
If congressmen start to see that they can no longer have a cordial, informative, and critical discussions with their constituents, it won’t be too long before they decide “F*$% it” and stay back in their offices in Washington, where they are most likely to spend their days with whichever lobbyists give them the most money.
This is NOT a step forward for democracy.
Peace,
Cynthia
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, PRESIDENT OBAMA!
Barry's having a sad birthday. He knows everyone's starting to figure him out. People are going to be very angry with him when the Dems lose both governor races this year and Congress in 2010. He has a sinking feeling of dismay.
Here's a poem for Sir BO:
"Your wishes won't be coming true this year
but please don't cry
we're gonna give you everything
you need to get by
a library
office expenses
protection for life
but you'll have to go back to Chicago
with your kids
and your wife"
Looks like lunatic fringe gay advocates may have jumped the gun again:
"Police have a lead in the investigation of the shooting at the gay and lesbian center in Tel Aviv on Saturday, Haaretz learned yesterday.
"This tip has to be examined very carefully. We are still at an early stage in the investigation, and it's too soon to say if this supposition is going to materialize," police sources said.
Instead of homophobia, the direction under investigation is that of a personal feud, they added.
Sources criticized the reaction of the leaders of the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community, who police say rushed to make declarations about incitement being the cause of the murders of the two victims.
"They were too quick with the rallies and the slogans. It's not at all clear - the motive for the attack may have been personal, rather than a general targeting of the community," a senior Tel Aviv police source told Haaretz.""
Never let it be said that the lunatic fringe failed to inflame a situation!
What a great birthday present from Bill Clinton for our President.
WSJ reports
Kim Frees Journalists During Clinton's Visit
Surprise Overture Could Restart U.S.-North Korea Diplomacy
North Korean leader Kim Jong Il has pardoned two American journalists and ordered their release during a visit by former U.S. President Bill Clinton, the Associated Press reported, citing North Korean state media.
Mr. Clinton met with the North Korean dictator in Pyongyang on Tuesday, state-run media said, in an apparent attempt to secure the release of two journalists held there since March.
According to a report from South Korea's Yonhap news agency, North Korean radio stations late Tuesday reported that Mr. Kim hosted a dinner for Mr. Clinton. The White House said Mr. Clinton didn't carry a message from President Barack Obama to Mr. Kim, contrary to North Korean state media reports. State media also showed images of the meeting of the two men. No agenda or details of the trip were announced by the U.S.
Mr. Clinton's surprise trip poses diplomatic and political risks for the Obama administration, yet also holds the prospect of changing a long-fractious relationship that has become more antagonistic over the past year.
The trip represents a sudden moment of compromise by both countries: North Korea for freeing the journalists and allowing in the former leader of the country it incessantly blames for all of its problems; and the U.S. for sending a person of Mr. Clinton's stature to a country that is its political and economic opposite..."
Here's some more of what Anon's unattributed Ha'aretz article reported about the center where the shooting took place.
...The basement where the shooting occurred is known as a safe meeting place, and it frequently attracts young Russian-speaking gay and lesbian teenagers.
The director of the Israeli Association for Immigrant Children, Eli Zarkhin, said the facility's discreet location suited the needs of these young people, who are often afraid of the exposure at large clubs in the area. The center also draws Russian-speaking social workers.
"There's no doubt that, considering the hostility in their home community and their families, the situation of young Russian gay people is even more difficult than that of their Israeli-born peers," Zarkhin said.
One of the young people who frequented the place said that many of his friends were wounded in the attack. One of them, he said, never even told his parents he was gay, and they only found out about it when they came to the hospital. The teen added that his friend's parents were as shocked by the revelation as they were by the attack itself.
"It's unbelievable - your son was nearly killed and what you choose to cope with is him being gay!" he said.
"The stairs that lead to this basement are the longest ones in the world, because they lead to the greatest possible mental change a person can ever experience," said one of the directors of the center. "I hope young people won't be afraid to descend this staircase in the future."
We've already read about some Russian-speaking immigrants' fear and loathing of LGBT folks back on a 2006 Vigilance thread when Orin posted an LA Times article, "For Gays, a Loud New Foe", which reported:
"...Anti-homosexual rallies that a few years ago attracted a few dozen participants now regularly draw hundreds and sometimes thousands, many with a heavy Russian accent. Even in a state capital where impassioned public demonstrations are a daily event, the Slavic fundamentalists stand out. Elderly women in babushkas stand next to small children carrying signs stating: "Perversion is Never Safe" and "I Am Not Learning About Gay People."..."
Now those were "fundamentalist Christian" Russian-speakers who relocated to the Sacremento, California area, and they might be very different from Jewish Russian-speakers relocated to Tel Aviv, but according to both press accounts, neither set of Russian-speakers shows much tolerance or acceptance of LGBT people, quite the contrary in fact.
It may be too soon to say "...the motive for the attack may have been personal, rather than a general targeting of the community...". But this much we know for sure: Seventeen people were shot -- two were killed and fifteen others were wounded.
"It may be too soon to say"
No, it's definitely too soon to say because you have no evidence and your purpose is to malign people whose religious beliefs hold that homosexuality is immoral.
"But this much we know for sure: Seventeen people were shot -- two were killed and fifteen others were wounded."
Yes, and for all we know it was done by a crazed gay individual, lending further credence to the evidence that homsexuals tend to be mentally unstable.
And by the same token bad anonymous, when a crazed Christian attacks gay people that'll lend further credence to the evidence that right wing Christians tend to be mentally unstable.
Fact is that dozens and dozens of studies since the work of Evelyn Hooker in the 1950's has demonstrated that gays are indistinguishable from straights on all measures of mental health. Unfortunately you haven't done so well on such measures.
"What a great birthday present from Bill Clinton for our President"
Oh yeah, that was great.
North Korea sentenced these innocents to 12 years of hard labor but actually put them up in a hotel in Ping-pong.
It was clear they were bargaining chips.
They let it be known that they would only release them if a high-level American came to pick them up and apologize.
Hillary got the ball rolling last week by backtracking on her previous statements and saying the jailed reporters had expressed "remorse".
This week, she sent Bill who apologized and the former U.S. Preisdent agreed to photo shoots with him looking dour and repentant while the smiling Kim Il Whatever is all smiles and magnanimity.
The propaganda winner is obvious.
Since Kim Il made it clear from the beginning what he wanted and he received it, the Obama administration has announced they are open for business.
This continues a pattern where North Korea causes a problems and makes demands that we agree to.
Barry O has turned us into suckers.
"The last time an American civilian was held prisoner by North Korea, in 1996, it took a visit from then-Congressman Bill Richardson to secure his release. Yesterday, it required the full prestige of a former U.S. President to win the freedom of captive journalists Euna Lee and Laura Ling. When it comes to giving up politically valuable hostages, the Dear Leader has clearly raised the price.
The important question going forward is whether Mr. Clinton’s visit was merely the down payment Kim extracted from the Obama Administration for a potentially larger set of American concessions.
That question is hard to avoid given that Mr. Clinton was met at the Pyongyang airport by Kim Kye-gwan, North Korea’s top nuclear negotiator. North Korea may have had its own propaganda reasons for putting its diplomat in the photo-op, and the White House insisted that Mr. Clinton’s mission was strictly humanitarian and that he was not carrying any messages from President Obama. We hope that’s true.
Yet Mr. Clinton’s visit is a message unto itself. It will bolster Kim’s bid to dissolve the six-party negotiations in favor of the direct talks with the U.S. he has long sought. It will also dismay some in South Korea and Japan, which have their own hostages in North Korea and will wonder why Mr. Clinton couldn’t obtain their release as well.
If it turns out that if a new nuclear negotiation really was begun during Mr. Clinton’s visit, it will also send the signal to North Korea that the worse its behavior, the more it stands to gain from the U.S. And it will mean that Kim’s price will be even higher to spring the next American hostages."
"The coffee was still brewing when Chris Ann Cleland got her first reminder of the day that voting for Barack Obama might have been a mistake.
The real estate agent was sitting at a long table covered with paperwork. Her clients, who had brought their 2-week-old baby, were finalizing a sale on a townhouse that they were anxious to unload, even if it meant ruining their credit, because they had maxed out their credit to make the payments.
For Cleland, it was another example -- one of many this day -- of the broken promises of a president who she thought would be different. Obama pledged to change a Washington culture that favored corporations and the connected and instead lift families such as the one sitting next to Cleland out of their economic funk. Rather, she said, Obama has backed billions of dollars to banks that continue to "act like they're broke" and started the country down a path that Cleland said she thinks will lead to more grief for the middle class.
"He's just not as advertised," she said. "Nothing's changed for the common guy. I feel like I've been punked."
Obama's policies are having immediate consequences in the campaign as the candidates adjust their strategies to account for the president's controversial domestic agenda, which has overshadowed many state issues.
The president will make his first appearance in the campaign Thursday, when he headlines a fundraiser for R. Creigh Deeds (D) in McLean.
But Obama's entry into the race presents a challenge for Deeds: How does he continue the momentum created by Obama, the first Democratic presidential candidate in more than four decades to carry Virginia, without being saddled with the baggage the president now carries?"
"Over the August Congressional recess, warned Nancy Pelosi last week, Republicans and insurance companies will resort to “carpet bombing, slash and burn, shock and awe” to bring down ObamaCare. Which makes us wonder how the House Speaker would describe what Democrats are doing to each other.
The Dresden fire-bombing?
The real political news this month isn’t Republicans vs. Democrats, and certainly not insurance companies vs. Democrats. If anything, the health-care business lobbies are helping Democrats by keeping quiet and hoping their silence buys their survival as heavily regulated utilities. If the insurance companies were any quieter, they’d be Trappists.
The news is how the political left and its lobbies are roughing up fellow Democrats who won’t get with President Obama’s government-run program. They’re treating the centrists who helped make them a majority as if they were Newt Gingrich without the social conscience."
"On Friday, Democracy for America and the Progressive Change Campaign Committee put out a “rapid-response ad” against Nebraska Senator Ben Nelson, who is lukewarm about a government-run insurance scheme, the so-called public option. “Will Sen. Nelson choose the insurance interests who fund his campaigns to the tune of over $2 million dollars?” the ad declares. Democracy for America calls the ad “a warning shot to any Senator who tries to block President Obama’s public health insurance option.”
Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus is another target because he’s negotiating with Republicans. The same “progressive” outfits recently ran an ad attacking Mr. Baucus for “threatening” the public option and “taking” $3.9 million “from health and insurance interests.” The Montana Democrat was also rapped for trying to scale back the cost to under $900 billion. In case Mr. Baucus didn’t get the hint, fellow Senator Tom Harkin publicly noted last week that Democrats hold a secret ballot for committee chairmen every two years. Better hire a food taster, Max.
Over in the House, the Blue Dogs have received similar treatment since they raised doubts last months about the 5.4% surtax, among other problems in the House bill. The DNC immediately targeted the districts of 12 Democratic Members of Henry Waxman’s Energy and Commerce Committee with a “‘It’s time for reform” television ad. MoveOn.org also called out its troops to pressure Blue Dog Democrats not to miss “a once-in-a-generation chance to pass real health care reform.” The pressure seems to have worked because enough Blue Dogs fell in line to pass the bill with only token changes through committee last week.
Here’s a typical email letter we’ve been receiving lately by the thousands targeting Democrats from the left, this one aimed at five-term Democrat Jim Matheson of Utah:
“Subject: Who Does Jim Matheson Work For—Blue Cross, or the Voters?”
The text says “Jim Matheson claims that he’s ‘taking on’ the insurance industry by asking for ‘triggers’ [before a public option would begin]. But ‘triggers’ are just what the insurance industry lobby wants. They don’t want anyone eating their profits . . . and Jim Matheson is helping them protect their profits. Jim Matheson’s district has a 12.6% uninsured rate, one of the highest in the country. Why would he want people in his district to suffer so Blue Cross can make more money? ” The letter is signed by a KEVIN SNOW, who is clearly part of some left-wing blast attack group. Mr. Matheson voted against the Waxman bill last week.
Even the Democratic National Committee is trashing Democrats, presumably with a green light from Mr. Obama and Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Mr. Obama’s political arm, Organizing for America, which is officially a wing of the DNC, is running ads to press Democratic Senators in Arkansas, Indiana, Florida, Louisiana, North Dakota, Nebraska and Ohio. The outfit has also staged demonstrations outside Senator Bill Nelson’s Florida offices. The campaign is heavy-handed enough that even Majority Leader Harry Reid denounced it as “a waste of money.”
This intraparty smackdown is all the more remarkable because, by winning in swing or GOP-heavy districts and states, these Members have given Democrats their governing majorities. If there’s a voter backlash in 2010, these Members will also be the first to be washed out to sea. Yet it’s becoming clearer by the day that Democratic leaders view these moderates as mere cannon-fodder footsoldiers in the great liberal revolution of 2009. And if you have to shoot a couple of them yourself to keep them all marching straight, so be it."
"And by the same token brilliant anonymous, when a crazed Christian attacks gay people that'll lend further credence to the evidence that right wing Christians tend to be mentally unstable"
please spare us your pathetic whining, Priya
gay-on-gay violence is very common and is rarely commented on
it's part of their sexual practices and spills over into the outside world when their minds go off on a tangent
lunatic fringe gay advocates jumped the gun here and called this a hate crime without any evidence
officials in Israel are now calling them on it
truth is, violence against gays as a group is so rare that lunatic fringe gay advocacy groups looking for any evidence to support their claims are now going global to search for it
Jesus, anonymous, you're piling on the prejudice and hate thick today.
I have never said Christians were mentally unstable or deviant. You, on the other hand, say these things about lgbt people repeatedly and on a regular basis.
WWJD?
Good thing Anon can cut and paste, otherwise we'd think he'd taken his ball and goalposts and gone home.
The front page Washington Post article this morning he posted omitted the first line of the 5th paragraph in (part of the "who, what, when, where, why" of Journalism 101). It reads:
"There is no empirical evidence at this point in Virginia's race for governor showing that huge numbers of voters think like Cleland and will respond by sending a message to Washington."
Who needs “empirical evidence” when you can *think* something and that makes it true, eh Anon?
It's fun watching the GOP spin round and round the Cash for Clunkers "socialist" program. Last Friday FOX NEWS reported:
McCain to filibuster "Cash for Clunkers" Bill
But the day before (McCain missed it?) DailyFinance.com reported:
...Ford saw a sharp increase in sales over the past week thanks to the "cash for clunkers" incentive program.
Ford executives…said Thursday that Ford already had a strong month before the incentive program kicked in, but they could see a definite and dramatic boost since the program started.
This week, CNBC reported:
Ford Motor's sales growth outpaced its rivals from the U.S. and Japan in July, rising 2.3 percent to give the automaker its first year-over-year monthly sales increase since November 2007, thanks in part to the U.S. government "Cash for Clunkers" program.
Also this week, Greenvilleonline reported:
“...I just think this is a great example of the stupidity that's coming out of Washington right now,” DeMint said on “Fox News Sunday.”
The money approved for the program to trade in old cars for more fuel-efficient new ones is about used up. The U.S. House of Representatives on Friday voted to add an additional $2 billion.
DeMint, who has been one of President Barack Obama's more vocal critics, said Sunday he will try to defeat cash-for-clunkers funding when the measure reaches the Senate this week...
Again this week, Time reports:
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell today said he would oppose the Senate bill. “Last week we saw the administration's tendency to miss the mark on economic estimates again with the so-called Cash for Clunkers program,” McConnell said on the Senate floor. “We were told this program would last for several months. As it turned out, it ran out of money in a week, prompting the House to rush a $2 billion dollar extension before anybody even had time to figure out what happened with the first billion.”
Why did the program run out of money so fast? Here, let Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood explain it:
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood proclaimed "cash-for-clunkers" a roaring success just as the Senate seems poised to push the popular program back into high gear with another $2 billion in cash.
LaHood said Wednesday that in just a brief time, "the government has proved we can get money out the door and sell almost 160,000 cars."
LaHood is a Republican and former congressman from Illinois. In an interview on CBS's "The Early Show," he called the car-purchase program "a huge boost for the economy."
McConnell's already jumped the GOP ship and says he now supports additional funding for the program and there's been no GOP filibuster. Let’s hope other GOP leaders figure out that the Cash for Clunkers program is a win win for America and get behind it, since they’ve never been out in front.
Repaired Time link
"I have never said Christians were mentally unstable or deviant."
What TTFers have done repeatedly is say that to hold that homosexuality is immoral, as is taught by every major world religion and historically by virtually all other civilizations, is to contribute to violence against sexual deviants.
You guys were doing it just the other day when this story from Israel first surfaced.
There is no evidence that is true. What little violence that gays are subject to from heterosexuals is more than likely to come from drunk redneck salloon dwellers looking for someone weak to target not the congregants of conservative churches.
There is also a significant S & M element in homosexual circles that also breeds violence. Their sexual practices are painful and dangerous, involving victimization of gays from gays.
It's not "prejudice and hate", Robert.
It's truth.
"Who needs “empirical evidence” when you can *think* something and that makes it true, eh Anon?"
The point of the Post story is that something seems to be brewing and so far the evidence is anectodal.
What we do know is that it looks like Republicans will win both governor races being held this year. The only "empirical evidence" lacking is a statistical analysis of why.
I wouldn't count on it being good news for Barry O.
Your amusing attempt to divert attention by a bunch of repetitive quotes about the clunkers program is sad.
"the Cash for Clunkers program is a win win for America"
Anon-B, why don't we have the government subsidize the purchases of all industries, not just autos?
Oh, that's right. The government owns GM so they are in the car business.
Why don't we have the government just buy every American a new car?
And then raise taxes to pay for it?
I guess IBM wishes Obama had nationalized a computer company.
The environmental angle is a canard, btw.
Producing all those new cars and dumping the old ones will do more damage to the environment than any fuel efficiency will help.
We need to move to a society where we repair and improve the old instead of idolizing the newest and flashiest.
more response from our enemies to Obama's conciliatory gestures:
"WASHINGTON (Aug. 5) - Two nuclear-powered Russian attack submarines have been patrolling in international waters off the East Coast for several days, in activity reminiscent of the Cold War, defense officials said Tuesday."
Your amusing attempt to divert attention by a bunch of repetitive quotes about the clunkers program is sad.
Oh brother, Anon, and your attempt to INFLAME cold war fears just reminds us all that your hero, George W. Bush, told us "I looked the man [Putin] in the eye," he said. "I was able to get a sense of his soul."
And what have you posted here today? A bunch of your unsubstantiated **beliefs** without a single fact among them. The country sees the problem with the GOP, even if you can't. The GOP has been moaning for months that stimulus money wasn't getting circulated fast enough. Then, when the Cash for Clunkers program did just that -- got money flowing into the economy quickly -- the GOP says it's a bad idea!
Vigilance recognize that you are the "deviant" who refuses to accept that gays are as normal as straights, like lefties and righties. You've been holding off on the insults for a while, but now you are are so depressed and distressed about your party's dismal failures on just about everything, that you come here as a sadist to insult people in order to feel better about yourself.
Get a grip on yourself.
"A bunch of your unsubstantiated **beliefs** without a single fact among them."
Could Anon-B be right?
Are there no facts in my last two posts?
Let's see:
1. What TTFers have done repeatedly is say that to hold that homosexuality is immoral is to contribute to violence against sexual deviants.
2. You guys were doing it just the other day when this story from Israel first surfaced.
3. There is no evidence that is true.
4. Violence that gays are subject to from heterosexuals is more than likely to come from drunk redneck salloon dwellers looking for someone weak to target not the congregants of conservative churches.
5. There is a significant S & M element in homosexual circles.
6. Their sexual practices are painful and dangerous, involving victimization of gays from gays.
7. The point of the Post story is that something seems to be brewing and so far the evidence is anectodal.
8. It looks like Republicans will win both governor races being held this year.
9. The only "empirical evidence" lacking is a statistical analysis of why.
10. The government owns GM so they are in the car business.
11. Producing all those new cars and dumping the old ones will do more damage to the environment than any fuel efficiency will help.
12. Two nuclear-powered Russian attack submarines have been patrolling in international waters off the East Coast for several days.
Looks like you're wrong, Anon-B.
A dozen facts in two posts.
That's not bad.
"Anonymous"
Ho, hum....yawn. Talk about being boring and "Johnny One-note".
Such a banal existence you lead - get out once in a while and get some fresh air in your life! Yawn.
you wouldn't be bored if you thought I was wrong
so, thanks
Bad anonymous said "gay-on-gay violence is very common...violence against gays as a group is so rare...Violence that gays are subject to from heterosexuals is more than likely to come from drunk redneck salloon dwellers looking for someone weak to target not the congregants of conservative churches".
LOL, thanks for all the lies. Fact is gay on gay violence is practically unheard of whereas examples of congregants of conservative churchs perpetrating violence on gays is common:
http://www.365gay.com/news/guilty-plea-in-tennessee-gay-friendly-church-shooting/
In Knoxville Tenesse conservative Christian Jim Adkisson went into a gay-friendly church and shot two people. Police say Adkisson targeted the church because of its liberal open-door policies, including acceptance of gays, and fully expected to keep shooting until responding officers killed him.
Scum like you provided the hate speech that motivates conservative Christians like Adkisson. You have blood on your hands.
Further to bad anonymous's BS:
"Drunk redneck salloon [sic] dwellers" usually are congregants of conservative churches.
This comment has been removed by the author.
thanks for three consecutive meaningless posts, Priya
and a link to a copletely objective web site:
365gay.org
gee, I wonder what they think about the gay agenda....
Adkisson was not a conservative Christian and claims to have shot up the church over liberal politics but was more likely motivated by his ex-wife's membership there
good try at making a coherent point though
Bad anonymous said "Could Anon-B be right? Are there no facts in my last two posts? Let's see: Looks like you're wrong, Anon-B. A dozen facts in two posts.".
LOL, you were a long way from 12 facts, virtually everything you said was a lie. Of course that's what we know you for, lies. This is like when you claimed you only speak when spoken to and in that very thread you made the first comment and it was an off-topic post. In this thread bad anonymous independently brought up 6 different topics further making a mockery of his claim that he "speaks only when spoken to". Fact is, if that were true bad anonymous would never post at all as no one here has ever initiated a discussion with him.
Bad anonymous said "Adkisson was not a conservative Christian and claims to have shot up the church over liberal politics but was more likely motivated by his ex-wife's membership there".
Wrong. In Adkisson's confession he talked about his faith in god and hatred of liberal churches thus proving he was a conservative Christian. He also specifically said he targeted this church because it supported gays and that his actions were a hate crime. At no point did he mention being motivated by his wife being a member there, that was not a factor, his conservative christian hatred of gays was his prime motivator.
You are entitled to your opinions, but not your own set of facts - stop lying and accept responsibility for the blood on your hands.
oops!
Priya the Deleta is at it again
first, she made a post that said some of my facts weren't true
now, she deleted that and said none of them are true
I'm seeing a detachment from reality on the part of our Canadian mascot
"In Adkisson's confession he talked about his faith in god and hatred of liberal churches thus proving he was a conservative Christian."
not proof of anything
When you claim a series of lies is 12 facts you're the one detached from reality. How about you live up to your claim and only speak when spoken to - that means you'll never post on any new thread.
Bad anonymous said "not proof of anything".
To you your falling off a cliff wouldn't be proof that gravity exists. You're in total denial of reality - of course you have to be to maintain your bigotry.
oh wow, Priya
you've convinced us all now!
7 of the last 11 posts were by Priya the Deleta
try to consolidate your thoughts, Priya, and strive for brevity
thank you very much!
Note:
In anonymoids response to me, he says "TTFers" and "You guys", then puts up his straw men of lgbt-supportive people blaming 'Christians' for the vicious attack on youth in Tel Aviv.
The pronoun I used was "I", referring to myself.
Nowhere have I read an lgbt or lgbt supportive organization blaming anti-gay Christians for this attack. I've only read those anti-gay organizations and anonymous blaming gays for blaming them.
If your going to claim people say something, you should at least provide links.
It really makes me angry that anonymous' empty and hateful attacks on queers inhibit the real people on this blog from discussing a genuine tragedy for lgbt youth. It lessens the usefulness of the site for genuine Christians, non-Christians, and Americans (and non-Americans) who want to talk to one another, and turns the discussion into some sort of evil self-stimulatory activity for someone who just doesn't like other people.
Please, go find your own sandbox to play in.
For myself, I am heatbroken for the young people in Israel.
Bad anonymous said "7 of the last 11 posts were by Priya try to consolidate your thoughts, Priya, and strive for brevity".
LOL, take your own advice blowhard. You wrote 182 paragraphs on here compared to my 17. Once again bad anonymous projects his bad behavior on innocent people. You're messed up - get help, you need it.
And I might add Bad anonymous wrote 182 paragraphs of dishointed off-topic nonsense as well - unlike my cogent replies.
Further to Bad anonymous's comment "Yes, and for all we know it was done by a crazed gay individual, lending further credence to the evidence that homsexuals tend to be mentally unstable.".
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/08/another_mass_murder.php#comments
A deranged gunman went on a shooting spree in a fitness club in LA, killing 3 women and injuring 10 he also left behind an online diary.
"Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.".
According to bad anonymous's logic this lends further credence to the evidence that conservative Christians tend to be mentally unstable.
Actually, Priya, I think you have it backwards. Christians embrace everyone, and so everyone comes to them. Some turn out to be disturbed and/or violent. If it's true that 70% of Americans are Christian, it would only make sense that they'd have a huge percentage of every type of group within them -- farmers, engineers, doctors, prisoners, crazy people, smart people, stupid people, etc.
An analogy would be to look at hospital statistics and say: "Hospital A has the highest death rate. They must be the worst hospital." However, upon further investigation, you find out that Hospital A is situated in a high crime district and gets lots of fatal stabbings and gun shot wounds, whereas Hospital B, with the low death rate, is situated in a rich neighborhood with low crime. Or, you might find out that Hospital A is located in a district with a high percentage of elderly people, while Hospital B is full of 20-year-olds.
"I am heatbroken for the young people in Israel"
Get a grip on reality, Robo.
No one knows the motivation for the attack.
Priya again, with three straight posts.
When will she start deleting?
and a link to a copletely objective web site:
365gay.org
Look who's complaining about a source! Anon's sources are either **I think** or no source at all.
You don't trust 365gay.org? How about the Knoxville News Sentinel? Do you trust them as a source?? Knowing you, it'll only depend on one thing: if they agree with what you **think** or not.
Watch this Knoxnews.com Video and listen carefully to the part about hate speech.
The read this Knoxnews.com story:
Jim David Adkisson wanted to leave no doubt of his motive in opening fire inside a West Knoxville church last year.
"This was a hate crime," Adkisson wrote in a four-page "manifesto" he had left inside his truck and intended to serve as a suicide letter.
Adkisson, 58, wrote that he wanted to kill the "generals" of the liberal movement, citing Democrats in Congress, Supreme Court justices and then-candidate for president Barack Obama.
But he said he couldn't get to those in power so he opted instead to attack liberalism's "foot soldiers," specifically citing the members of the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church...
Read the rest of this article for yourself.
Adkisson was not a conservative Christian and claims to have shot up the church over liberal politics but was more likely motivated by his ex-wife's membership there
Read the facts in Adkisson's "MANIFESTO", which contains such gems as:
“I’m absolutely fed up! So I thought I’d do something good for this country — kill Democrats ‘til (sic) the cops kill me.”
“Don’t let the word church mislead you."
“This isn’t a church, it’s a cult. They don’t even believe in God. They worship the God of secularism. … The UU church is the fountainhead, the veritable wellspring of anti-American organizations.”
“They embrace every pervert that comes down the pike, but if they find out your (sic) a conservative, they absolutely hate you."
“I know. I experienced it.”
"How is a white woman having a [N-word] baby progress? How is a man sticking his [d***] up another man's [a**] progress?"
Adkisson made it abundantly clear he hates liberals, Democrats, "cults" who "don't even believe in God," white women who have half-black babies, and gays. He's just an all around hater.
"I am heatbroken for the young people in Israel"
Get a grip on reality, Robo.
You get a grip on reality. The reality is a group of teenagers at a support meeting were shot up. A youth group leader and a young female participant were killed and 15 others were wounded. Everybody should be heartbroken about the loss and scarring of young lives that took place that day. Of course we know you don't give a hoot about their pain and suffering, they were just some young "deviants" to you, right Anon?
A lot of words and links and still not one thing that said Adkisson was a conservative Christian.
Priya was lying about that.
It was a politically motivated crime according to the perpetrator, but he's not the epitome of integrity so it's still feasible to speculate on spousal connection.
What these people say after their crimes is designed to get them attention and publicity.
"Everybody should be heartbroken about the loss and scarring of young lives that took place that day."
We live in a world of heartbreak and loss. It's a tragedy but it's also vindication of the biblical view that man is fallen.
That Anon-B and Robo so desperately want this incident to be a hate crime against gays just shows how rare such crimes are.
They're now scouring the global community to find them.
If you guys really wanted to help gays internationally, you'd sign up to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Any idea what happens to gay support groups in Taliban-controlled areas?
I am not heatbroken because of the motivation for the crime. I am simply heartbroken.
perhaps you dress in black like Johnny Cash
murder happens every minute of the day in our world
if you want to individually mourn each instance, you won't have any time left to live your own life
That Anon-B and Robo so desperately want this incident to be a hate crime against gays just shows how rare such crimes are.
They're now scouring the global community to find them.
So now you **think** you know what research I do when you are not here to see it? Well, that might be what you **think** but once again you're wrong.
There are plenty of hate crimes out there against LGBT folks. You are the one trying desperately to make Adkisson's rampage **not** a hate crime even when the perpetrator himself said it was one. Adkisson's objections were political and military but he also specifically included God, conservataves, mixed race children, and same-sex partners in his manifesto. All the spin in the world will not change the facts.
"So now you **think** you know what research I do when you are not here to see it? Well, that might be what you **think** but once again you're wrong.
There are plenty of hate crimes out there against LGBT folks."
Apparently not. Shepard is always cited and the lunatic fringe always acts very threatened if the story is questioned in any way.
It's the only one they've got.
Ditto the Israeli story. You guys never bring up any incidents that have occurred here. Why the one on the other side of the world?
It's the only one you've got.
"You are the one trying desperately to make Adkisson's rampage **not** a hate crime even when the perpetrator himself said it was one. Adkisson's objections were political and military but he also specifically included God, conservataves, mixed race children, and same-sex partners in his manifesto. All the spin in the world will not change the facts."
You continually misrepresent what I said.
I said the guy wasn't a conservative Christian.
He probably hated somebody to start shooting them but it appears to liberals and that's a pretty broad category- the majority if you believe TTF- and there are no hate crime laws protecting political preferences.
C'mon. You and Priya are lying.
Golly Anon. I guess both the murder of Matthew Shepard and the murder and wounding of gay teenagers in Israel are "the only one [we]'ve got."
These 2007 FBI hate crime statistics prove otherwise.
I said the guy wasn't a conservative Christian.
Are you only capable of telling half truths? That's a bad habit you need to break.
Here's what you said:
Adkisson was not a conservative Christian and claims to have shot up the church over liberal politics but was more likely motivated by his ex-wife's membership there.
I pointed out that he mentioned God and conservatives in his manifesto. The text I C&Ped included:
“This isn’t a church, it’s a cult. They don’t even believe in God. They worship the God of secularism. … The UU church is the fountainhead, the veritable wellspring of anti-American organizations.”
The word "wife" did **not** appear in the manifesto anywhere so your "more likely" guess is just that. Relying on guesses rather than facts is another bad habit you need to break.
thinking UU is liberal doesn't make you a conservative Christian, Anon-B, just an intelligent observer
furthermore, he didn't address their theology but their political activities
the statements of the criminally insane aren't facts, Anon-B, but the fact that, out of many, he chose to attack the church of his ex-wife is
sorry Charlie
you're stupid
the criminally insane
Who has diagnosed Adkisson as criminally insane? Oh no one, you're lying again. How typical.
Adkisson's manifesto said this about the UU church he shot up:
This isn’t a church, it’s a cult. They don’t even believe in God...
...if they find out your (sic) a conservative, they absolutely hate you.
I know. I experienced it.
You've made a couple of statements that his motivation to shoot up a UU church during a children's performance of "Annie" involved his ex-wife. You said:
more likely motivated by his ex-wife's membership
and you said:
the statements of the criminally insane aren't facts, Anon-B, but the fact that, out of many, he chose to attack the church of his ex-wife is
So you think some of his statements are facts and some are not and that you are the person able to judge which is which?
< eye roll >
Tell us Anon, what statement did Adkisson make that indicates to you he shot up the church because of his ex-wife?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
FYI, I just deleted some spam, not an objectionable comment.
JimK
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