Wednesday, January 11, 2012

0.1 Percent is Pretty Close to Zero

This came out a couple of days ago but let's get it on the record here.

Psychologist Warren Throckmorton was one of the original supporters of the Citizens for Responsible Curriculum, an anti-gay rightwing cell operating in Montgomery County, Maryland. Throckmorton and a colleague wrote a position paper promoting the CRC's opposition to a sex-ed curriculum that mentioned sexual orientation, and he came to Maryland at least once to speak to the group. He made a video in 2004 called I Do Exist, which showed a stream of individuals claiming they had stopped being gay. The title reflects a false cliche among anti-gay groups, who like to assert that "ex-gays" really do exist.

Throckmorton has taken the video offline and said he regrets "that the video was used as a part in the culture war surrounding homosexuality." He now seems to embrace a belief that gay people can act straight if their environment, in particular their religious environment, demands it -- but they don't ever really change into heterosexuals.

He has stayed in the game, though, blogging about LGBT issues and generally taking a slightly more generous perspective that says it's all right to expect gay people to pretend to be something they are not. Many people think this is an improvement, well it is. It is delusional to believe that homosexual people can learn to be straight. It is only bizarre to suggest that gay people can and should pretend to be straight in order to meet the expectations of people who don't understand them.

Alan Chambers is president of one of the country's largest "ex-gay" organizations, Exodus International. He supports reparative therapy, opposes same-sex marriage, you know the rest.

Throckmorton's blog had this item this week:
As noted Friday, President of Exodus International, Alan Chambers, spoke that evening as a part of a panel discussion at the annual conference of the Gay Christian Network. Audio of the panel is now up at GCN (Part 1, part 2). During part 2, about 5:30 into the file, Alan Chambers is asked, I think by GCN Executive Director Justin Lee, about the way Exodus and member ministries describe the work they do. Specifically, Lee asked about the slogan “change is possible.” Chambers responds by discussing his views of sexual orientation change, saying
The majority of people that I have met, and I would say the majority meaning 99.9% of them have not experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction. I think there is a gender issue there, there are some women who have challenged me and said that my orientation or my attractions have changed completely. Those have been few and far between. The vast majority of people that I know will experience some level of same-sex attraction.

There was also some discussion of change meaning a change of viewpoint and behavior but the consensus was that Chambers was giving an honest appraisal of the aspect of sexuality that involves essential attractions. As one who once defended sexual reorientation change efforts, I have to agree with Chambers’ assessment. Credible reports of change are rare and do come more often from women than men.

Now, I wonder. Will this news be reported by Christian media, or become part of the evangelical blackout?


Members of the Citizens for Responsible Whatever and PFOX have tried to insist that there are thousands, tens of thousands, of ex-gays out there, people who used to be gay and changed. Problem is, nobody can ever find one, except for the ones who make a living promulgating that cruel hoax.

The game is just about played out. Alan Chambers says that maybe 0.1% of ex-gays have really changed, and that most of those seem to be women. He has seen thousands try to change, he has believed in it as strongly as he can, and at the end of the day he looks around and says: it doesn't work.

I have an idea. Let's accept people the way they are. Is there something wrong with that? How about we let people love who they love?

18 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How about we let people love who they love?"

who's stopping them?

January 11, 2012 9:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"99.9% of them have not experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction"

change shouldn't be defined as the complete and permanent obliteration of any same gender attraction

that would be like saying you change an alcoholic to never want another drink or a liberal to never want to lie again

obviously, once one has crossed a certain line, temptation will always be a present possibility

the change sought, however, should be the emotional and physical capacity to engage in a normal and healthy heterosexual relationship

January 11, 2012 9:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is not and never will be a "normal and healthy heterosexual relationship" when one of the partners in couple is not sexually attracted to the other, but pretends to be in an effort to please people who think homosexuals should behave like heterosexuals.

January 11, 2012 12:13 PM  
Anonymous S.A.N.E. said...

And the nuts continue losing...

January 11, 2012 12:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"It is not and never will be a "normal and healthy heterosexual relationship" when one of the partners in couple is not sexually attracted to the other, but pretends to be in an effort to please people who think homosexuals should behave like heterosexuals."

you're not following

the goal of therapy is not necessarily to eliminate any same gender attraction but to enable opposite gender attraction

sexuality is a continuum and few, if any, are incapable of being rescued from exclusive homosexual attraction

if a person makes a move down the continuum and becomes bisexual and then chooses an opposite gender marriage partner, the fact that the bi has occassional attraction to someone of the same gender is no more unhealthy and abnormal than if a husband notices other attractive women

stop trying to shove your square peg into oval holes

homosexuality is bad for individuals and society and it can be overcome

January 11, 2012 1:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There you go again, denying facts and reality.

The fact is and even Alan Chambers agrees that 99.9% of those who try to change from gay to straight remain homosexual in sexual orientation no matter how many hair-brained therapies they allow people to talk them into trying.

You should stop talking about continuums and various shaped pegs. You only make yourself look stupid.

People to not change from homosexual to bisexual to heterosexual anywhere but in your brain, which is apparently unable to grasp facts on this topic, even those realized and reported by a reparative quack like Alan Chambers and a long term reparative therapy researcher like Warren Throckmorton.

It is homophobia that is bad for individuals and society and it can be overcome.

January 11, 2012 5:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"People to not change from homosexual to bisexual"

not often

that's because few are exclusively homosexuals

most "homosexuals" have had heterosexual experiences

so, despite their denials, most homosexuals are actually bi

always have been, always were

January 11, 2012 6:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The fact is and even Alan Chambers agrees that 99.9% of those who try to change from gay to straight remain homosexual in sexual orientation"

you really are a moron, aren't you?

have you ever had your IQ tested?

here's what Chambers said about the 99.9%:

"99.9% of them have not experienced a change in their orientation OR have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted OR are not tempted in some way OR experience some level of same-sex attraction"

pretty much covers everything except a change to exclusive heterosexuality

I mean, come on, "some level of same-sex attrraction"?

that might even cover some people who consider themselves exclusively heterosexual

this site used to have some gay advocates that were pretty intelligent

what happened?!?

January 11, 2012 7:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have got to be kidding.

I see all those "or"s, but you apparently skipped the "not" that starts the whole string of them off.

""99.9% of them have NOT experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction""

That's why the title of Dr. Throckmorton's blog is: "Alan Chambers: 99.9% have ***not*** experienced a change in their orientation"

Who's the moron?

January 11, 2012 8:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"... that would be like saying you change an alcoholic to never want another drink ..."

This brings up a good point. You know what people in AA call themselves, even if they have not had a drink in thirty years? Alcoholics. They don't say "ex-alcoholic," in fact that is the whole point of the movement. They know what they are. Because alcohol is destructive to addicts it is reasonable for them to avoid the stuff. But they are very careful not to claim they have "changed."

Homosexuality is different, because there is nothing destructive about it, except for the fact that it freaks some insecure straight people out. So there is no reason for gay people to avoid love, romance, and sex, and there is no reason for them to pretend they are something they are not.

January 11, 2012 8:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Who's the moron?"

that would be you

he said "or"

he didn't say "nor"

the truth is there are no really exclusive homosexuals

"Homosexuality is different, because there is nothing destructive about it, except for the fact that it freaks some insecure straight people out."

that- and the fact that those who suffer from it are hindered from living a full life

January 11, 2012 9:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chambers said 99.9% of gays trying to live in the closet have *not* experienced a change in their orientation.

Dr. Throckmorton said Alan Chambers reported 99.9% have not experienced a change in their orientation.

You said "here's what Chambers said about the 99.9%:

"99.9% of them have not experienced a change in their orientation OR have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted OR are not tempted in some way OR experience some level of same-sex attraction""

I said "you apparently skipped the "not" that starts the whole string of them [the word "or"] off"

A moron said "he didn't say "nor""

Nobody said anybody said he said "nor." Chambers' grammar may be bad, but his meaning is clear to those who are not blinded by their obsessive homophobia.

Those who suffer from obsessive homophobia are hindered from living a full life. Instead they read what they want to see, not what was said. To wit, read the headlines Google produces when you search for "Alan Chambers, 99.9%" :

‘Ex-Gay’ Guru Alan Chambers Touts 0.1% Success Rate for Changing Sexual Orientation

Alan Chambers: 99.9% have not experienced a change in their orientation

“Ex-Gay” Leader: “Vast Majority” Of "Ex-Gays" Still Experience Same-Sex Attraction

Alan Chambers – 99.9% have not experienced a change in their orientation

Exodus International director says 99.9% of people can’t change orientation

Ex-Gay Leader: “99.9% Have Not Experienced A Change In Their Orientation”

They Are the 99.9%

Exodus President Admits Ex-Gays Don't Change Their Orientation

January 12, 2012 8:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the point is, everyone agrees that someone who has had and enjoyed homosexual experiences is likely to always have the capacity to do so

but that's irrelevant

the point of therapy should be to enable such a person to also develop a capacity to have AND ENJOY heterosexual experiences even if they also maintain that homosexual capacity

lunatic fringe advocates, such as the one that keeps ranting in this comment strand, want to imply that, in that situation, the individual will be longing to get it on with other guys and, thus, the marriage will be unhappy

but that makes no more sense than saying a heterosexual can't be happy because he'll constantly be longing for other women

the fact that the lunatic fringe makes this argument, however, is revelatory as to why random promiscuity and AIDS is rampant in the homosexual community in places where homosexuality is tolerated

they simply can't conceive the possibility that someone can exhibit self-control and still be happy

virtually all homosexuals have had heterosexual experiences and/or thoughts

I'll ask again:

do you deny this?

January 12, 2012 1:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ask Alan Chambers about his own marriage. Maybe he'll have an open conversation with you and tell you who or what he thinks about when he performs as a heterosexual husband.

Or maybe he's just trying to raise cash.

There was "a “secret conference” held in New York in November 2011 to explore ways to keep Exodus International from going under. Exodus is saddled with enormous debt due to the purchase of their office building in 2007 at the peak of the real estate bubble, and like most non-profits, they are experiencing a sharp downturn in donations. According to Roberts, anonymous sources told him that the emphasis at this conference was on exploring ways to make Exodus more “donor accessible” — in other words, upgrades to Exodus’s fundraising programs and mechanisms. But discussions on possible turn-around plans weren’t limit to just money:

"Chamber’s apparently wishes to “re-brand” Exodus into something more palatable to those with funds to give, and the general public alike. According to our sources, Chambers said that “everything is on the table.” That everything apparently includes the possibility of his resignation. It was also clear from the meeting that this is their last resort, their “Hail Mary” so to speak — they’ve tried everything else. Indeed, it seems certain that Chambers would have made pleas to anyone he knew with money before taking this drastic action. And we’ve all seen the odd inconsistencies apparent in their public face. Exodus is an organization fumbling for a solution.

Chambers mentioned how struck he was by the response to John Smid’s recent change in direction, particularly his apology. He seems to think that doing something similar might be one way that Exodus could gain some positive attention. Don’t forget, everything is on the table. We have confirmed that Smid has been in contact with Chambers recently, and has plans for more discussions in the future. It has been our understanding that there is no love lost on Smid by Chambers, so any future corroboration would likely have a more practical basis."

Exodus has flirted with the idea of retooling its message before. The main message that Exodus promotes is that changing from homosexuality to heterosexuality (however loosely defined) is possible. But more recently, an underlying theme has emerged among those who are more embedded in the ex-gay movement that “the opposite of homosexuality isn’t heterosexuality, it’s holiness.” Chambers has been giving variations on that theme since at least 2007. He surprised supporters and critics alike when he told the Los Angeles Times, “By no means would we ever say change can be sudden or complete.”

And yet this is a long way from the direction that John Smith has taken since stepping down as Executive Director of the Memphis-based residential ex-gay program Love In Action. Smid now says that he “never met a man who experienced a change from homosexual to heterosexual,”, and he also now says that same-sex relationships can be “a faithful gay relationship that is truly, in their experience, a great blessing to their relationship with Christ.” He has also offered a generalized apology (although some former clients are skeptical that the apology alone is sufficient), all of which points to a dramatic transformation for him. It’s doubtful that Exodus would be able to pull off a similarly dramatic change and still keep its relationships with the network of Evangelical churches that it has built over the past several years."

January 12, 2012 3:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

virtually all homosexuals have had heterosexual experiences and/or thoughts

I'll ask again:

do you deny this?

January 12, 2012 10:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon, it does not seem that you have a point to make. Yes, most gay people have spent time in the closet, so what?

We have been told for instance by PFOX that there are thousands of ex-gays out there, people who have changed their sexual orientation. It's a lie, intended to give the victims of bigotry false hope.

January 12, 2012 10:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What makes you think you know anything about what gays think or do? You do not have lots of gay, er, excuse me, I'll use your word, "deviant" friends, obviously.

As a heterosexual, I can assure you I have never had a homophobic thought like the ones you espouse endlessly here on this blog. And unlike you, I do know several gay people, fellow LGBT civil rights activists, who never dated anyone until after they came out.

Two long term "ex-gay" therapists, Smid and Chambers who are both married to women, have joined the long line of others before them in stating that attempts to change sexual orientation fail 99.9% or virtually all of the time. That fact obviously frightens your homophobic self.

January 12, 2012 10:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If everyone lives on a sexual continuum between heterosexual and homosexual then it should be just as easy for the heterosexual to work to develop a capacity to have AND ENJOY homosexual experiences even if they also maintain that heterosexual capacity.

So tell me, how easy would it be for you to modify your orientation so that you could have and enjoy homosexual experiences?

April 19, 2012 6:32 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home