Thursday, June 07, 2007

Committee Wants Expert Medical Opinions: CRC, PFOX Oppose Them

Last night MCPS staff presented the citizens advisory committee with the results of the pilot testing of the new Montgomery County, Maryland, sex-ed lessons for 8th and 10th grade. The committee heard the results and learned that the school district is not planning to add materials from the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Psychological Association to the curriculum.

The committee then voted to adopt a resolution urging the Superintendent and Board of Education to add the materials. The vote was 8 to 2, with the members representing the Citizens for a Responsible Curriculum and PFOX voting against it.

In the pilot testing, students were asked to write questions on index cards at the end of the class period and submit those anonymously to the teacher. Teachers reported that questions were asked verbally during class, too, but those were not recorded.

Most of the complaints about the classes had to do with the fact that they are tightly scripted, and teachers were not allowed to answer questions about the course content. According to MCPS staff, the teachers could have answered more questions than they thought they could, and some training will be conducted in order to make it clear to teachers that they can answer some questions -- "What is behavior?" was an example of a question they could have answered.

The school district staff noted several times the presence of a reporter, the threat of a lawsuit reiterated in yesterday's Gazette, and the fact that several committee members were taking notes -- this is an intense process, and everyone sympathizes with their sense that they need to be very, very careful. It also became apparent during the discussions that there will not be any opportunities for substantial changes, once the new classes have been implemented. So even though the school district understandably does not want to risk controversy or criticism or lawsuits, it is important to get this right. The instinct might be to pull back, to be extra conservative -- everybody knows that feeling. But the reasonable thing is to produce an excellent curriculum the first time out -- and how can there be any risk in including materials from the experts in medicine and mental health?

The committee had recommended inclusions of statements from these three documents:
The information in these documents is secular, mainstream opinion from the authoritative organizations representing physicians in general, pediatricians specifically, and psychologists. If teachers had the knowledge contained in these few, easy-to-read pages, they would be able to answer almost all non-silly questions in the classroom.

Even giving students a handout with the statements from these documents would go a long way toward clarifying some important points. Students who have questions about their sexuality will be especially likely to look these things over outside the classroom.

The statements that the committee wanted to include were these:
Children who have fleeting same-sex attractions may assume incorrectly that they are gay or lesbian. Mere fleeting attraction does not prove sexual orientation.

All mainstream medical and mental health professional associations have concluded that homosexuality is not a disease or a mental illness.

The American Academy of Pediatrics says that most experts have concluded that "one's sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual." Moreover, according to the American Psychological Association, sexual orientation is not a "conscious choice that can voluntarily be changed." Similarly, the American Medical Association opposes "therapies" that seek to change sexual orientation that are premised on the assumption that homosexuality is an illness and that people should change.

Homosexuals can live happy, successful lives; they "can be successful parents."

Children raised by same-sex couples do just as well as those raised by heterosexuals, and are no more likely to be homosexual.

It's simple, it's straightforward, it's authoritative, it answers the important questions that students are likely to have.

It is telling that the CRC and PFOX both voted against inclusion of the expert opinions. The CRC's representative on the committee is actually a physician -- you would think she would have supported inclusion of AMA policy statements. They complain when some little sentence, taken out of context from an antiquated government web site, is not included, but oppose the public policy statements of the most prominent organizations in the fields of medicine and mental health. Go figure.

The pilot test results will go to the school board on Tuesday, and they will vote on whether to implement the new curriculum in the fall. Somewhere in that process they will also be informed of the committee's resolution. The Superintendent's office could decide to add the professional organizations' statements to the curriculum before presenting it to the board, or if that doesn't happen the board could vote to add the materials.

It's a last chance to do the right thing. The curriculum as it is developed is a step in the right direction; things will be discussed in the classroom that are long overdue. There can be nothing wrong with making the message very clear, and there is nothing to gain by keeping the information vague. The fact is, the doctors have spoken, without ambiguity, and students deserve to know what the expert medical opinion is on these important questions.

30 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrea- not anon

CRC's doc, like its lawyers, should not give rise to the expectation of anything. I have found in working for umpteen years with people whose degrees trump those of Dr. Ruth, Johnny and Susan- they know some things but that knowledge can be extremely limited in its scope. Of course, my co-workers generally seem sane, well-written, well-spoken and tend not to froth or weep when they speak.

June 07, 2007 11:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The fact is, the doctors have spoken, without ambiguity, and students deserve to know what the expert medical opinion is on these important questions."

FACTS can be selectively chosen to distort TRUTH. Such is the intent of TTF.

The truth is that the behavior portrayed as normal by the curriculum is dangerous and students deserve to know that.

June 07, 2007 11:14 AM  
Blogger JimK said...

OK, Anon, tell us: what behavior is "portrayed as normal by the curriculum?"

JimK

June 07, 2007 11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Transgender

June 07, 2007 3:11 PM  
Blogger Priya Lynn said...

Anonymous, the only thing dangerous about being transgender is exposure to bigots with hateful attitudes such as you promote. Being transgender in itself poses no threat. For those who choose to have surgery the risks associated with any surgery are well explained in advance of it. We own our bodies, its our choice what we do with them. We don't owe it to you or anyone to live according to your whims. Its time you learned to be satisfied with controlling only your one life - you have no right to control anyone elses.

June 07, 2007 3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

FYI, Randi, anon #4 was not the same as anon #2

the usual anon is now on sabbatical until june 14

will try to see how many things Jack Daniels can feasibly be mixed with

June 07, 2007 3:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrea- not anon

Once agan- if the anons are not just multiple personalities of the same entity, use some identifier besides anon 1, 2, 3. If you don't want to use your name, Johnny/Wyatt, make something up. You certainly call us enough names.

June 07, 2007 5:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JimK said...
OK, Anon, tell us: what behavior is "portrayed as normal by the curriculum?"
_____

June 07, 2007 11:50 AM
Anonymous said...
Transgender

______________

Transgender is a behavior?????

Ted

June 07, 2007 5:38 PM  
Blogger JimK said...

I suspect that many, if not most, transgender people live their whole lives without anyone knowing how they feel.

Is that "dangerous," as Anon alleges? I'm sure it's not optimal, but I doubt "dangerous" is the best word to describe the situation.

JimK

June 07, 2007 5:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is dangerous is anonymous talking and giving opinions about things anon does not know about or even cares to learn more about to understand.


Ted

June 07, 2007 6:31 PM  
Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

Anon has made it very clear on many occasions that he knows nothing of sex and gender.

Transgender behavior is as normal as diabetic behavior, though I have no clue what either would actually mean. But that's his point -- he doesn't care for science, just his twisted sense of sin which is not even based on anything in his Bible. His goal is to obfuscate and provoke.

June 07, 2007 10:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, I agree with Ted. Transgender is a condition not a behavior.

Dangerous behavior being legitimized by the curriculum is teenage promiscuity and homosexual sexual activity.

June 07, 2007 11:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...


Dangerous behavior being legitimized by the curriculum is teenage promiscuity and homosexual sexual activity.


_________

Where exactly does the curriculum encourage this?

Hmm..with something like a 91% participation rate for kids who were opted in by parents to take sex ed I do not think the parents thought any such thing.

Because they certainly do not think it afterwards.

Ted

June 08, 2007 12:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Dangerous behavior being legitimized by the curriculum is teenage promiscuity and homosexual sexual activity.
_________

Where exactly does the curriculum encourage this?"

Before answering that, could you show where it says that "legitimize" and "encourage" mean the same thing?

"Hmm..with something like a 91% participation rate for kids who were opted in by parents to take sex ed I do not think the parents thought any such thing."

Parents are apathetic and believe, with good reason, that liberal agenda programs are inevitable so its not worth fighting, just deal with it other ways.

"Because they certainly do not think it afterwards."

Come again?

June 08, 2007 1:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In case anyone forgot, homosexual behavior by consenting adults is a legitimate behavior as decided by the U.S. Supreme Court in a 6 - 3 vote on June 26, 2003. Is it "dangerous?" As Surgeon General Koop said while he actually was SG, it is what you do, not who you are, that puts you at risk for HIV infection.

I guess legal and medical authorities don't matter.

June 08, 2007 7:13 AM  
Blogger Orin Ryssman said...

Jim writes,

The fact is, the doctors have spoken, without ambiguity, and students deserve to know what the expert medical opinion is on these important questions.

LOL!!! Thanks for the laughs.

I am sorry, but when TTF fellow travelers get all bent out of shape over Bush's nominee for Surgeon General, simply because he wrote a paper for a church (the United Methodist Church--Hillary Clinton's denomination) on the pathophysiology of male homosexuality (which appears to be quite FACT based), I have a difflicult time taking all of this "we must bow down to scientific FACTS" business seriously.

Here is the story,

http://www.abcnews.go.com
/print?id=3251663

Question: If we are genuinely concerned with the health and welfare of our students, should we not be sharing these FACTS with them as well?

Or, is the issue that SOME facts are more equal than others?

Inquiring minds want to know...

June 08, 2007 7:45 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"In case anyone forgot, homosexual behavior by consenting adults is a legitimate behavior as decided by the U.S. Supreme Court in a 6 - 3 vote on June 26, 2003. Is it "dangerous?" As Surgeon General Koop said while he actually was SG, it is what you do, not who you are, that puts you at risk for HIV infection."

Hate to break up a smug rhetorical bliss but "homosexual behavior" is something you do not something you are. And just looking for a partner puts you at risk, without even going into the mechanics.

June 08, 2007 9:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"In case anyone forgot, homosexual behavior by consenting adults is a legitimate behavior as decided by the U.S. Supreme Court in a 6 - 3 vote on June 26, 2003."

Legal is not the same as acceptable by community standards. Few people want those who engage unnatural sexyual behavior arrested.

"Is it "dangerous?" As Surgeon General Koop said while he actually was SG, it is what you do, not who you are, that puts you at risk for HIV infection."

Not appropos to the discussion but nice to see TTF recognize Koop's authority since they usually dis him because he had the gall to tell the truth about condom use during anal sex.

"I guess legal and medical authorities don't matter."

Again, nice to see wacky TTF recognize that the Surgeon General not the AMA is the medical authority in this country.

June 08, 2007 9:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Surgeon General is a political appointee. Dr. Holsinger, like most other political appointees to federal agencies that deal with scientific and medical issues made by the Bush adminstration, demonstrates more loyalty to Bush's anti-gay ideology than scientific competence.

A couple of more decades worth research have been conducted in the field of HIV/AIDS since Koop made his statement. Every federal medical agency recommends the proper use of condoms to help prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS. None of them endorse Koop's statement from the 1980s.

June 08, 2007 11:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"demonstrates more loyalty to Bush's anti-gay ideology than scientific competence"

Could just as well have been stated:

"demonstrates less loyalty to TTF's pro-gay ideology than scientific competence".

June 08, 2007 12:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Orin said I am sorry, but when TTF fellow travelers get all bent out of shape over Bush's nominee for Surgeon General, simply because he wrote a paper for a church (the United Methodist Church--Hillary Clinton's denomination) on the pathophysiology of male homosexuality (which appears to be quite FACT based), I have a difflicult time taking all of this "we must bow down to scientific FACTS" business seriously.

People reject Dr. Holsinger’s appointment to Surgeon General for many reasons, not just because he “simply” wrote a paper for a church. Dr. Holsinger isn’t just a medical doctor; he also holds a Masters Degree in biblical studies from Asbury Theological Seminary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_W._Holsinger#Education Dr. Holsinger is also associated with Hope Springs Community Church in Lexington, Kentucky, which “ministers to people who no longer wish to be gay or lesbian,” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_W._Holsinger#United_Methodist_Church_2004 Dr. Holsinger is associated with this anti-gay church even though the AMA "[O]pposes the use of ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy that is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon the a priori assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation." (AMA Policy Number H-160.991 Health Care Needs of the Homosexual Population); even though the AAP has said "one's sexual orientation is not a choice; that is, individuals do not choose to be homosexual or heterosexual." (Guidance for the Clinician on Sexual Orientation and Adolescents, published in PEDIATRICS, Vol. 113, No. 6 (June 2004)); and in spite of the fact that the American Psychological Association has reported that sexual orientation is not a "conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed," and that gay men and lesbians can "live successful, happy lives." (Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality (2007)).

Orin asked If we are genuinely concerned with the health and welfare of our students, should we not be sharing these FACTS with them as well?

Or, is the issue that SOME facts are more equal than others?


Some of Dr. Holsinger's facts involve erotic techniques, which by state law may not be mentioned in any health classes in Maryland. Dr. Holsinger's 1991 paper might be partially fact based but it also spins facts to support his personal religious and political views. As the ABC article reported, Professor Eli Coleman, Director of the Program in Human Sexuality at the University of Minnesota Medical School and June M. Reinisch, Ph.D., director emeritus of the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender & Reproduction question the scientific soundness of Dr. Holsinger's 1991 paper.

In that 1991 paper, Dr. Holsinger stated Few anorectal problems and no evidence of anal-sphincter dysfunction are found in heterosexual women who have anal-receptive intercourse. but then he went on to talk about rape and fisting, which he reported were dangerous but very rare. The ABC article reported Many homosexuals do not engage in the sexual act he [Dr. Holsinger] criticizes; 40 percent of heterosexuals do. Human bodies have various orifices capable of serving as the receptive or "female" part. Various orifices are enjoyed by many couples of different sexual orientations and genders. It is also a fact that Dr. Holsinger reported "heterosexual women who have anal-receptive intercourse" encounter "[f]ew anorectal problems and no evidence of anal-sphincter dysfunction ."

Dr. Holsinger's conclusion states ” When the complementarity of the sexes is breached, injuries and diseases may occur as noted above.” . But he never explains how it can be that heterosexual women can ”have anal-receptive intercourse” and show “no evidence of anal-sphincter dysfunction,” but same sex couples can't. This omission renders his conclusion that mixing the “alimentary and reproductive systems leads to injury and disease," questionable at best.

June 08, 2007 12:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"People reject Dr. Holsinger’s appointment to Surgeon General for many reasons, not just because he “simply” wrote a paper for a church. Dr. Holsinger isn’t just a medical doctor; he also holds a Masters Degree in biblical studies from Asbury Theological Seminary."

Wow!

Now TTF thinks that doctors who hold degrees in biblical studies are tainted.

Really, I do hope a lot of Democrats take up the TTF cause in this. It will make the next election so much easier.

June 08, 2007 2:07 PM  
Blogger Priya Lynn said...

Orin said "I am sorry, but when TTF fellow travelers get all bent out of shape over Bush's nominee for Surgeon General, simply because he wrote a paper for a church (the United Methodist Church--Hillary Clinton's denomination) on the pathophysiology of male homosexuality (which appears to be quite FACT based), I have a difflicult time taking all of this "we must bow down to scientific FACTS" business seriously."

Orin, anytime someone uses their religion to justify an attack on gays it is not fact based. Clearly Holsinger is letting his judgment be warped by anti-gay religiosity and he is not able to represent all American citizens impartially and honestly.

His bias is demonstrated, as Aunt Bea pointed out, by the fact that he ignores the 120 million American heterosexuals having anal sex to demonize the perhaps 15 million American gays having anal sex. His bias is further demonstrated by the fact that his alarmist warnings about the dangers of anal sex are repudiated by the overwhelming numbers of people engaging in it problem free.

Anonymous said "homosexual behavior" is something you do not something you are. And just looking for a partner puts you at risk, without even going into the mechanics.".

So anonymous, you aren't heterosexual, that's just something you do, its not an innate part of you, you could just as easily swing the other way? Funny how people like you claim your sexuality is part of who you are while somehow rationalizing rejecting that gays have the exact same experience. And looking for a partner is most certainly risk free. A committed same sex relationship is just as safe as a committed heterosexual relationship - there's no risk at all involved in them.

Anonymous said "Again, nice to see wacky TTF recognize that the Surgeon General not the AMA is the medical authority in this country".

Fraid not anonymous. The concensus of thousands of doctors greatly outweighs the mythologically based bias of one man. This nonminee for surgeon general's opinion on gays carries no more weight than my own, in fact it carries less seeing as I am an LGBT and I'm not influenced by bigoted mythology I'm in a much better position to judge gays then he is.

June 08, 2007 2:41 PM  
Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

I happen to be the only one on this blog who personally knew Dr. Koop. He was my pediatric surgery professor at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia. A great surgeon and teacher, very witty and outspoken. But no one ever said he was a saint, which he clearly wasn't, and as a physician I imagine he wouldn't have any problem admitting having made a mistake.

June 08, 2007 3:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Get ahold of yourself Anon. Like Randi, my views are my own, not TTF's.

W. David Hager is another M.D. who dabbled in the occult and was appointed to a medical position in the federal government by Bush. Hager was a member of the Board of Trustees at Asbury College a Christian liberal arts college, which is associated with the Asbury Theological Seminary where Holsinger got his Masters. At Asbury College, Hager bragged "I was asked to write a minority opinion that was sent to the commissioner of the FDA. For only the second time in five decades, the FDA did not abide by its advisory committee opinion, and the measure was rejected." Because of Hager's resistance, rape victims were denied over the counter access to Emergency Contraception for a few more years than necessary. Hager's resistance demonstrated to me that he prefers forcing women to carry unwanted babies to term over medically safe abortion or EC. And then there was his wife's tale of sexual abuse. Combined with examples like Jim Bakker and Ted Haggard, I've decided that too many strongly religious people who try to tell others how to behave sexually do so out of guilt because they behave so badly sexually themselves.

Bush has lived up to my low expectations for him. He always recommends political appointees in medical and scientific fields who adhere to his exclusionary and hateful religious views rather than to principles of scientific integrity. Dr. Holsinger's nomination continues Bush's despicable record.

June 08, 2007 3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I happen to be the only one on this blog who personally knew Dr. Koop."

Actually, I knew him too. He would often sit in a pew with or near me on Sunday morning and we'd chat after the service.

June 08, 2007 4:16 PM  
Blogger Dana Beyer, M.D. said...

Well, then I stand corrected.

June 08, 2007 6:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aunt Bea points to "June M. Reinisch, Ph.D., director emeritus of the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender & Reproduction.

What a farce. Kinsey's research has never ever been duplicated and the institute named after him has refused to ever release the raw data for scrutiny.

All pro-gay professonals with initials after their names are genious heroes. Everybody else is a fraud, freak, or fanatic.

June 08, 2007 7:03 PM  
Blogger BlackTsunami said...

u mean people like Paul Cameron?

June 08, 2007 7:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon claimed the institute named after him has refused to ever release the raw data for scrutiny.

Whoever told you that was lying. Here's the truth:

Data was gathered primarily by means of interviews, which were encoded to maintain confidentiality. Other data sources included the diaries of convicted child molesters. The data were later computerized for processing. All of this material, including the original researchers' notes, remains available from the Kinsey Institute to qualified researchers who demonstrate a need to view such materials. The institute also allows researchers to submit SPSS programs to be run on the data. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_Reports#Methodology

Sorry, but they don't let anonymous pervs read the data for fun. Confidentiality of all research data is scrupulously protected.

June 08, 2007 7:48 PM  

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