Marriage Wins in New York
The New York state Senate, with a Republican majority, has just voted 33 to 29 to allow citizens of that state to marry regardless of whether couples are the opposite or same sex. New York is by far the biggest state to grant marriage equality, and this is being viewed as a tipping point -- once New York has adopted a pro-marriage measure, other states will certainly follow.
The addition of New York more than doubles the number of Americans living in states that allow marriage equality. Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, New York and the District of Columbia all allow full marriage rights; New Jersey, Maryland, and Rhode Island recognize marriages performed in other states, and California does in some cases. Thirty-one states require couples to be of opposite sex.
This is a major victory for equal rights.
[Update: the rainbowed Empire State Building tonight:]
The addition of New York more than doubles the number of Americans living in states that allow marriage equality. Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, New York and the District of Columbia all allow full marriage rights; New Jersey, Maryland, and Rhode Island recognize marriages performed in other states, and California does in some cases. Thirty-one states require couples to be of opposite sex.
This is a major victory for equal rights.
[Update: the rainbowed Empire State Building tonight:]
posted by JimK at 10:30 PM
34 Comments:
There goes that arc of history, bending toward justice-sweet!
My wife and I watched the NY Senate webstream. It was quite moving.
Particularly instructive was the presentation of Republican State Senator Mark Gristani, who won his first election last year campaigning against marriage equality, but then, on having to deeply examine this issue, felt he had to vote in favor -- and eloquently explained his change of heart. See http://aworldofprogress.com/mediacenter/new-york-legalizes-same-sex-marriage/
Compare this to the actions of the Maryland legislators a few months ago who switched the other way, and could only explain that they were bowing to political pressure.
"There goes that arc of history, bending toward justice-sweet!"
well, rainbows do bend but how is the abolition of marriage in our second most populated state just?
"My wife and I watched the NY Senate webstream. It was quite moving."
David, you're a sick puppy
"Particularly instructive was the presentation of Republican State Senator Mark Gristani, who won his first election last year campaigning against marriage equality, but then, on having to deeply examine this issue, felt he had to vote in favor -- and eloquently explained his change of heart."
that's "instructive" alright
it's a perfect example of bait and switch
in what universe is it "eloquent" to get elected by saying you'll oppose something and then not following through?
the honest course of action would have been to resign if his views had changed his views on an kissue he used to gather votes
but did he change, or this just a political calculation?
remember the first Bush's "read my lips"?
this guy will meet the same fate
"Compare this to the actions of the Maryland legislators a few months ago who switched the other way, and could only explain that they were bowing to political pressure."
a handful of a Republicans bowed to intense political pressure from the Mafioso governor of New York despite pleas from moral and religious authorities
not exactly Profiles in Courage
I will grant, however, that the Empire State Building looks cool in rainbow colors
we'll just consider ourselves thankful they didn't put up an inflatable King King wearing a tutu
and that 2012 is an election year in NY
oh boy, Jim has another hit in his worldwide search for rainbows!
the arc of this rainbow has now bend down to the nether regions
how ironic for those gays who love Judy Garland that in the next election in NY the political slogan of the winners will be "let's go somewhere over the rainbow"
Bad anonymous said "well, rainbows do bend but how is the abolition of marriage in our second most populated state just?"
That really sums up the delusions and profound dishonesty that overwhelms your mind. More people are allowed to marry, no one is prevented from marrying yet you try to portray it as though no one is allowed to marry.
I'm savouring your frustration and tears. How sweet it is! :)
Congratulations New York!!!
(Looking at the beautiful picture of the Empire State Building…)
Oh my, what a big rainbow you have!!
It’s no wonder God chose to use the rainbow flag colors to let the world know it was safe after the big flood.
Have a triple-Z snap FABULOUS rest of the weekend!
Cynthia!
"That really sums up the delusions and profound dishonesty that overwhelms your mind. More people are allowed to marry, no one is prevented from marrying yet you try to portray it as though no one is allowed to marry."
no, I'm saying there is no longer any distinction to marriage so it effectively doesn't exist
it's partly two people, of opposite gender, who join together
but there is also a community component, which is why there are witnesses, that has now been destroyed
you think more people are getting married because you don't know what it is
"I'm savouring your frustration and tears. How sweet it is!"
am I frustrated to tears?
not at all
like everything else, it's in God's hands
my only duty is to say "amen" when I see him work
"Congratulations New York!!!"
yes, all those years you've been called Sodom- and you finally deserve it
"Oh my, what a big rainbow you have!!"
what a gay comment
"It’s no wonder God chose to use the rainbow flag colors to let the world know it was safe after the big flood."
he didn't say it was safe
he said it was safe from destruction by flooding
"Have a triple-Z snap FABULOUS rest of the weekend!"
what a gay comment
and, yes, that was an epithet
Anon:
To call Gristani's actions a "political calculation" is absurd. He was elected in an extremely conservative district, and this vote may well cost him his political career. The political calculation would have been to vote NO.
If he is renominated and reelected next time, that would likely be because many of his constituents listened to what he said and were convinced. That would evidence true leadership.
Anon blathered:
“no, I'm saying there is no longer any distinction to marriage so it effectively doesn't exist:”
Obviously marriage still exists; and I bet you can’t find one single heterosexual couple that is now giving up their marriage or refusing to get married now that the gays will be getting married in New York. As usual, your statement suffers no worldly attachment to reality.
Anon concluded:
“what a gay comment
and, yes, that was an epithet”
We’ve come to expect nothing less from you. But compared to your usual epithets, (which frankly, aren’t much to write home about) it’s pretty lame. I’ll let it slide this time given that you’ve just had such a great blow to your world view. Try to come up with something a bit more colorful and creative next time.
By the way, if you stop whining long enough, and listen carefully, you might just hear my pet amoeba playing the world’s smallest violin for you.
Have a nice day,
Cynthia
“my pet amoeba playing the world’s smallest violin for you”
Cynthia, ever insightful, never hostile and always a hoot!
“there is no longer any distinction to marriage so it effectively doesn't exist”
boo hoo
Hooray for NY!
Tres bien, Emproph! C'est un super video!
Today's New York Pride Day is going to be one of the happiest of celebrations ever!
Beau and I send our hearty congratulations to all the gay couples and families celebrating their long-sought equal legal status in NY!
I'm happy to announce to all those who were worried: Beau and I are still married! The action in NY didn't change a thing for us.
"To call Gristani's actions a "political calculation" is absurd. He was elected in an extremely conservative district, and this vote may well cost him his political career. The political calculation would have been to vote NO."
you're naive, David
if only the voters were the only factors in the political process
but, as you're tacitly recognizing, this vote thwarts the will of the public
it won't, therefore, last
"That would evidence true leadership."
no, true leadership would be to resign if you no longer, in conscience, fulfill your compact with the voters
"Obviously marriage still exists;"
the word exists
in New York, the meaning has been obliterated
"and I bet you can’t find one single heterosexual couple that is now giving up their marriage"
the state of NY no longer recognizes it as unique
there, it has been cheapened and dumbed down
we continue to live in a state where marriage still exists
"I’ll let it slide this time given that you’ve just had such a great blow to your world view."
I don't think my world view has taken a blow
"Try to come up with something a bit more colorful and creative next time."
you mean like "have a nice day"?
"By the way, if you stop whining long enough, and listen carefully, you might just hear my pet amoeba playing the world’s smallest violin for you."
I've heard that transgays are susceptible to amoebic dysentry
nice that you can laugh about it
"Cynthia, ever insightful, never hostile and always a hoot!"
hey, look!
improv screwed up the courage to make a post
as always, a hoot
"boo hoo"
this must be that "creativity" that cinco was talking about
"Hooray for NY!"
hey, Robert
why don't you move there?
"Today's New York Pride Day is going to be one of the happiest of celebrations ever!"
oh yes, the simulated copulation and S&M floats will be just rapturous!
"Beau and I send our hearty congratulations to all the gay couples and families celebrating their long-sought equal legal status in NY!"
you guys oughta boil up some slugs and have a feast!
"I'm happy to announce to all those who were worried: Beau and I are still married! The action in NY didn't change a thing for us."
that's true
you live in Maryland
Glad you liked the post, Emproph. You’d probably like to meet my pet amoeba too; she goes by the name Bob, because she’s genderqueer and fond of palindromes. Normally her musical tastes run in the Bach to Mozart range, but she saw Weird Al Yankovic’s latest parody song “Perform this Way,” ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss_BmTGv43M ) and now I get to hear it over, and over, and over again. She wants to do an album with his porcupine.
Anon complained:
“the state of NY no longer recognizes it as unique
there, it has been cheapened and dumbed down
we continue to live in a state where marriage still exists”
Funny, I don’t know any married couple that has found their marriage cheapened by gays being allowed to marry. It seems their marriages are built on a more substantial footing. I pity anyone who thinks their marriage is now lessened. It couldn’t have been much of a marriage to begin with, if it depended on making sure gays are kept as second class citizens.
Anon noted:
“I've heard that transgays are susceptible to amoebic dysentery (sic)”
Reading right-wing propaganda I see… Peter Sprigg again? Now THERE is a guy with some creative writing skills! One day he may be recognized for his contributions to science fiction.
Have a VERY nice day,
Cynthia
"Glad you liked the post, Emproph."
yes, what an encouragement!
"You’d probably like to meet my pet amoeba too; she goes by the name Bob, because she’s genderqueer and fond of palindromes. Normally her musical tastes run in the Bach to Mozart range, but she saw Weird Al Yankovic’s latest parody song “Perform this Way,” ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss_BmTGv43M ) and now I get to hear it over, and over, and over again. She wants to do an album with his porcupine."
cinco's mental problems are worsening
"Funny, I don’t know any married couple that has found their marriage cheapened by gays being allowed to marry."
gays have always been allowed to marry
fortunately, there's a federal law that says, even in NY, that same gender partnerships called "marriage" are invalid
"It seems their marriages are built on a more substantial footing."
well, in NY, the state is illegally refusing to recognize the distinction of marriage
"I pity anyone who thinks their marriage is now lessened. It couldn’t have been much of a marriage to begin with, if it depended on making sure gays are kept as second class citizens."
having a defintion of marriage doesn't make anyone who doesn't qualify "second-class"
that's as absurd as thinking you are any gender you imagine yourself to be
"Reading right-wing propaganda I see… Peter Sprigg again? Now THERE is a guy with some creative writing skills! One day he may be recognized for his contributions to science fiction."
you're the one who said you had an amoeba
talk about projection
"Have a VERY nice day"
a sad attempt at creativity
"INDIANOLA, Iowa (Reuters) – Republican presidential contender Newt Gingrich on Saturday said the adoption of same-sex marriage in New York showed the nation is "drifting toward a terrible muddle."
Saying he thinks marriage is between a man and a woman, he told reporters that he "would like to find ways to defend that view as legitimately and effectively as possible."
He said he thinks the nation should be defending the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which defines marriage ass being between a man and a woman.
In February, the Obama administration decided it would no longer defend the 15-year-old law.
"I think the president should be, frankly, enforcing that act, and I think we are drifting toward a terrible muddle which I think is going to be very, very difficult and painful to work our way out of," he said."
Newt Gingrich is irrelevant and his presidential campaign has drifted toward a terrible muddle.
"Cash-Strapped Gingrich Does Not Bid for Iowa Straw Poll Lot
He may not admit it as yet but Newt Gingrich’s cup of woes runneth over.
Close on the heels of the resignation of his two most senior fundraising advisers Tuesday and the news that the presidential hopeful’s campaign is $1 million in debt, there is another development, or rather, lack of it.
Gingrich’s campaign refrained from bidding for a lot Thursday to participate in the Ames straw poll event, the national campaign spokesman, R. C. Hammond confirmed with The Des Moines Register in an interview.
Another Gingrich spokesman, Joe DeSantis, confirmed the decision, reported CNN.
The reason Hammond gave for not bidding for the spot was that the campaign wanted to concentrate on strengthening the grassroots organization even as he clarified that it should not be taken to mean that the campaign is on the rocks, the Iowa newspaper reported."
Perhaps, "Anonymous", you will give very careful consideration to moving to Uganda.
nah, things are going too well here
got to stick around for the Tea Party President that begins in 2013
we have so many great candidates running that it's embarassing:
"WATERLOO, Iowa -- Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann said Sunday her bid to unseat President Barack Obama shouldn't be viewed as "anything personal" against the Democrat – he's "just wrong" on his policies for America.
In an interview with The Associated Press on the eve of her entry in the 2012 GOP presidential race, the Minnesota congresswoman said she does not foresee problems moving from frequent naysayer to the country's proposer-in-chief. She said voters can expect her to propose an economic agenda that includes cuts to corporate taxes and phase-outs of taxes on inheritances and investment earnings.
Her economic turnaround plan will also include a repeal of unspecified environmental regulations, she said.
"Look, I love the environment. I love clean air, clean water. I'm a sportswoman. I love the outdoors. We will keep that. But the EPA has been an expansion department," she told the AP from outside her girlhood home in a now-gritty Waterloo neighborhood, where she says her Democratic parents taught her lifelong sensibilities.
Of Obama, she said, "I don't have anything personal about our president. But he's just wrong. But his policy prescriptions have been wrong."
Bachmann, a tea party favorite, planned to kick off her campaign Monday in Waterloo where she has been greeted with a new poll predicting she'll be a force in the state that opens the GOP nomination context. The Iowa Poll released Saturday by The Des Moines Register showed her in a tie with Republican rival Mitt Romney among likely caucus-goers.
Speaking later to hundreds at a nearby ballroom, Bachmann effusively mentioned her Iowa roots.
"We need more Waterloo. We need more Iowa. We need more closeness, more families, more love for each other," she told her enthusiastic crowd.
The audience soaked it up.
"She's one of `us.' There are too many of `them' in Washington and not enough of `us,'" said insurance salesman David Alderman. "I think she's got star power. She's a frontrunner right now."
Earlier Sunday, Bachmann had harsher words for those warning economic calamity unless Congress raises the government's borrowing limit by an August deadline.
"It isn't true that the government would default on its debt," Bachmann told CBS' "Face the Nation." She later added, "It is scare tactics."
Instead, she said the U.S. could avoid a default by paying only the interest on U.S. obligations while lawmakers work on a deal to cut spending dramatically as part of a new debt ceiling.
Obama planned separate meetings Monday with Senate leaders as negotiations on trimming spending and raising the debt ceiling moved into a new stage. Talks among lawmakers of both parties ended last week when Democrats and Republicans reached an impasse over whether there should be any role for additional revenue in reducing the deficit.
Officials say the nation's borrowing will exceed its $14.3 trillion limit on Aug. 2.
Anon asserted:
“cinco's mental problems are worsening”
I’m sure everyone (including you) recognized that as the creative / writing humor portion of my post, and got a little chuckle out of it (unless of course, I’ve over estimated your I.Q. by about 40 points again). But keep grasping at those threads, maybe some day something will unravel.
“gays have always been allowed to marry”
Then what did they have that big vote for in NY??? Oh wait a minute, now I remember, you’re playing that little semantic game where later you point out gays can marry people they don’t like of the opposite sex. Well then, that would just be a straight marriage, not a gay marriage. If you actually had a relevant point there, someone might have used it in the debate, and the vote might have gone the other way.
“a sad attempt at creativity”
In the 3+ years I’ve been posting here you’ve done nothing but tweak right-wing talking points into unpunctuated, snarky one-liners, which you intersperse with cut and paste jobs from right-wing propaganda sites, and yet you still have the nerve to ping me on a lack of creativity. Talk to Vanna White; maybe she can find you a period.
“Newt Gingrich on Saturday said the adoption of same-sex marriage in New York showed the nation is "drifting toward a terrible muddle."”
Ah, drifting toward a terrible muddle… good thing they included the context for that quote, otherwise I would have thought he was referring to his presidential campaign.
No, wait a minute. There is a clue in there if you stop and think about it. He didn’t say “careening toward a terrible muddle.” Then, it would have obviously been about his campaign.
Have an un-creatively nice day,
Cynthia
"I’m sure everyone (including you) recognized that as the creative / writing humor portion of my post,"
I think we all realized that you were making such an attempt
the delusionary element is that you thought it was funny
"and got a little chuckle out of it"
I doubt anyone did but improv will probably pretend to think it's funny if you ask him to
improv, would you pretend that cinco's post is funny?
it's sometimes best to humor these types while their meds are being prepared
"Then what did they have that big vote for in NY???"
you didn't hear?
they voted to redefine "marriage"
"Oh wait a minute, now I remember, you’re playing that little semantic game where later you point out gays can marry people they don’t like of the opposite sex."
but marriage is a relationship where both genders are represented
the "semantic game" is being played by you
btw, there's a Federal law confirming this
"Well then, that would just be a straight marriage, not a gay marriage."
gay marriage is a contradiction in terms
"If you actually had a relevant point there, someone might have used it in the debate, and the vote might have gone the other way."
I'm sure it was
political pressure won out, temporarily
"you have the nerve to ping me on a lack of creativity."
takes a lot of nerve to ping you, huh?
what are you, royalty or something?
only "special" people can ping you?
(more signs of mental illness becoming apparent)
"Have an un-creatively nice day,"
wow!
more creativity exploding through the cybersphere
I can stand it no more
Anon asserted:
“the delusionary element is that you thought it was funny”
Hellooo!!!! Anybody home? McFly!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh9PYtmVybU
Actually, the delusionary element is someone thinking that I would write something here that both you AND Emproph would funny. The butt of a joke (even if they don’t get it) seldom, if ever, finds it funny. That’s just the way humor works, sorry.
I didn’t leave you out of the fun entirely though; I did post the link to Weird Al’s parody of Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way,” which is absolutely HILARIOUS!!! Although given your nature, seeing Al’s 50 something head superimposed over a female 20 something’s body may just give you one of those Harold Camping moments. You know, where after seeing something like that, you predict the End of the World, and then have a stroke after it doesn’t really happen.
And on marriage:
“btw, there's a Federal law confirming this”
Yeah, I remember that law… fortunately in this time of tight budgets, our government isn’t defending a law that is well, indefensible, especially after the NY vote.
“political pressure won out, temporarily”
Yeah, those 3.5% of the population that are gay certainly can exert an inordinate amount of pressure, can’t they? Makes you wonder how they do that. Or it could be that logic, reason, and fairness are slowly winning over the hearts and minds of even those predisposed to irrational prejudices.
“takes a lot of nerve to ping you, huh?”
Hardly, I can take a ping as well as anyone, and I’ve been known to ping a few people myself on occasion.
I was merely pointing out that “repetitive anonymous conservative talking point” guy pinging me for a lack of creativity is a lot like Rosie O’Donnell pinging me to loose some extra weight. (I hauled my 5’11” frame onto the scale this morning – I’m a whopping 136.6 pounds.)
“I can stand it no more”
Thanks for letting me know how much it annoys you!
Have a Sparkly Rainbow Unicorn day!
Cynthia!
"Actually, the delusionary element is someone thinking that I would write something here that both you AND Emproph would funny. The butt of a joke (even if they don’t get it) seldom, if ever, finds it funny. That’s just the way humor works, sorry."
gee, what a way with words!
"I didn’t leave you out of the fun entirely though; I did post the link to Weird Al’s parody of Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way,” which is absolutely HILARIOUS!!! Although given your nature, seeing Al’s 50 something head superimposed over a female 20 something’s body may just give you one of those Harold Camping moments. You know, where after seeing something like that, you predict the End of the World, and then have a stroke after it doesn’t really happen."
I think cinco is on the edge, the edge, the edge, the edge of insanity
"Yeah, I remember that law… fortunately in this time of tight budgets, our government isn’t defending a law that is well, indefensible, especially after the NY vote."
that has nothing to do with budgets
Barry "what me, a hypocrite?" Obama is trying to get ALL the votes by pretending to be both for and against delightfully gay "marriages"
I don't anyone is fooled though
"Yeah, those 3.5% of the population that are gay certainly can exert an inordinate amount of pressure, can’t they? Makes you wonder how they do that."
they generally don't
only in places like NY
"Or it could be that logic, reason, and fairness are slowly winning over the hearts and minds of even those predisposed to irrational prejudices."
opposition to the institutionalization of deviance is neither irrational or prejudicial- or unusual
"I can take a ping as well as anyone,"
I beat you can
"and I’ve been known to ping a few people myself on occasion."
can you still do that?
"I was merely pointing out that “repetitive anonymous conservative talking point” guy pinging me for a lack of creativity"
I guess anything conservative can only be legitimately mentioned once
otherwise, it's a TALKING POINT!
you'd never catch a TTFer repeating anything (wink-wink)
or, talking, in any intelligible sense
"is a lot like Rosie O’Donnell pinging me to loose some extra weight. (I hauled my 5’11” frame onto the scale this morning – I’m a whopping 136.6 pounds.)"
sounds like Rosie could give you some tips on nutrition
ask Donald Trump for her number
there's no reason to live with anorexia
"Thanks for letting me know how much it annoys you!"
you annoy everyone
"Have a Sparkly Rainbow Unicorn day!"
I'd make a snarky comment about creativity here but it's just too sad to give a ping
Anon contrived:
“"I can take a ping as well as anyone,"
I beat you can
"and I’ve been known to ping a few people myself on occasion."
can you still do that?”
Gee Anon, I had never considered using the verb “ping” in that way. But now that I know what was on your mind when you wrote that, I understand why you protested so much when I rebuffed your efforts to “ping” me. You need to chill out Anon. It’s never, ever going to happen. You’re not my type.
“I guess anything conservative can only be legitimately mentioned once
otherwise, it's a TALKING POINT!
you'd never catch a TTFer repeating anything (wink-wink)”
You didn’t get it. If repetition was the only issue I never would have mentioned it. The curious thing about Conservative Talking Points is that they seldom have any real facts to back them up. They are just apocalyptic conjecture designed to scare those prone to manipulation apocalyptic narratives, i.e. conservative Christians. Some examples include “23-07 is going to allow drag queens in the ladies’ rooms and take away your liberties,” “your little girls will be raped by men claiming they are women with this law,” “men with a female gender identity will strip nude in a women’s locker room,” “cinco’s mentally ill,” “WMD,” and “death panels.” The only evidence they can provide for these wild assertions are even more ludicrous, like the woman who claimed “Obama appointing all those czars” was “proof” he was a communist. I seem to recall a dude by the name of Ronald Reagan appointing a guy by the name of William Bennett as the nation’s “drug czar” decades ago.
It is not uncommon for “TTFers” to try reiterating a point in a slightly different manner in the vain hope it will find some cognitive gears to engage with in the conservative brain. Rarely does this ever happen, but that doesn’t stop them from trying.
“sounds like Rosie could give you some tips on nutrition
ask Donald Trump for her number
there's no reason to live with anorexia”
Yet again, your lack of accurate, pertinent, or even relevant information about my medical condition shines like a spotlight on a gay pride float at midnight. Since you seem so concern about my medical condition, allow me to enlighten you.
I have never suffered from anorexia, bulimia, or any other eating disorder. I am allergic to nightshades, (potatoes, tomatoes, eggplants and peppers) but that is a food allergy which forces me to choose alternatives, not an eating disorder.
I’m not a “perfect” eater or a “health food nut,” but I do try to eat healthy -- organic high-fiber cereal for breakfast, a lunch with a decent amount of veggies, and a small dinner which may or may not include meat. I avoid high levels of salt, don’t drink carbonated beverages or consume caffeine, and snack on dried fruits, nuts, and granola bars rather than chips or other junk foods. I use olive oil and vinegar on my salads rather than goopy, high calorie, processed dressings.
I try to do a brisk walk every morning and typically get in 10 to 15 miles a week this way walking around my neighborhood. I usually have a small pause in my walks as I stop to pet the neighborhood kitty cats. In the winter I don’t always make it out for the walk, but I have a good-sized driveway that I have to shovel more frequently than I’d like. I usually put on a few pounds in the winter, and work them off in the spring.
I used to go to my endocrinologist every 6 months to get my hormone and other blood levels checked. He has changed that to once a year because my eating and exercise habits have left me with very good cholesterol and lipid levels, and blood pressure readings like “98 over 62,” “105 over 70” and the like. I didn’t know what that really meant and so I had to go look it up on the web. (http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-pressure.htm ) It appears pretty darn healthy.
Most of his patients are overweight diabetics, so I can only imagine what their blood tests come back looking like. When he calls me with mine though he always seems surprised at how good they are. I’m not, after all, I eat decently, get some moderate exercise, take vitamins and fish oil supplements, and I’ve never done any illegal drugs. Why wouldn’t I be healthy?
Have a fruit-filled granola bar day!
Cynthia
"You didn’t get it. If repetition was the only issue I never would have mentioned it. The curious thing about Conservative Talking Points is that they seldom have any real facts to back them up."
actually, that's true of most luntic fringe gay advocacy positions but now that I know the fringe lingo, I'll just start calling your nonsense "talking points"
talk amongst yourself
"They are just apocalyptic conjecture designed to scare those prone to manipulation apocalyptic narratives, i.e. conservative Christians."
quite honestly, this is such a bizarre example of a lack of self-awareness that it almost seem superfluous to mention
virtually every liberal or gay agenda cause is based on some kind of fear
let me know if you want examples
"Some examples include “23-07 is going to allow drag queens in the ladies’ rooms"
those arguments were not only hypothetical but obviously hpothetical so until we perfect a crystal ball, we can't, by definition, compile facts about the future
it also obviously be negligent to not take such factors into account
"and take away your liberties,”"
laws, by definition, take away some liberty
it's a fact
this one, for eaxample, took away a business owner liberty to set policies for use of his restrooms
"“your little girls will be raped by men claiming they are women with this law,” “men with a female gender identity will strip nude in a women’s locker room,”"
see above
"“cinco’s mentally ill,”"
you're saying you're not?
before you answer, remember, we've all been reading your thoughts here
"“WMD,”"
not only did Saddam try to make people think he had these, he did have them in the past
and used them on his enemies both domestic and foreign
"“death panels.”"
there is a mechanism in place within Obamacare to ration access to health care and this will become a reality unless we repeal
which we will
"The only evidence they can provide for these wild assertions are even more ludicrous, like the woman who claimed “Obama appointing all those czars” was “proof” he was a communist."
never heard that but his extensive run around Congressional oversight is becoming routine
the "czar" network is an element of that
"It is not uncommon for “TTFers” to try reiterating a point in a slightly different manner"
no, they repeat the exact same phrases over and over
"Yet again, your lack of accurate, pertinent, or even relevant information about my medical condition shines like a spotlight on a gay pride float at midnight. Since you seem so concern about my medical condition, allow me to enlighten you. I have never suffered from anorexia, bulimia, or any other eating disorder. I am allergic to nightshades, (potatoes, tomatoes, eggplants and peppers) but that is a food allergy which forces me to choose alternatives, not an eating disorder. I’m not a “perfect” eater or a “health food nut,” but I do try to eat healthy -- organic high-fiber cereal for breakfast, a lunch with a decent amount of veggies, and a small dinner which may or may not include meat. I avoid high levels of salt, don’t drink carbonated beverages or consume caffeine, and snack on dried fruits, nuts, and granola bars rather than chips or other junk foods. I use olive oil and vinegar on my salads rather than goopy, high calorie, processed dressings. I try to do a brisk walk every morning and typically get in 10 to 15 miles a week this way walking around my neighborhood. I usually have a small pause in my walks as I stop to pet the neighborhood kitty cats. In the winter I don’t always make it out for the walk, but I have a good-sized driveway that I have to shovel more frequently than I’d like. I usually put on a few pounds in the winter, and work them off in the spring. I used to go to my endocrinologist every 6 months to get my hormone and other blood levels checked. He has changed that to once a year because my eating and exercise habits have left me with very good cholesterol and lipid levels, and blood pressure readings like “98 over 62,” “105 over 70” and the like. I didn’t know what that really meant and so I had to go look it up on the web. (http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/medicine/blood-pressure.htm ) It appears pretty darn healthy. Most of his patients are overweight diabetics, so I can only imagine what their blood tests come back looking like. When he calls me with mine though he always seems surprised at how good they are. I’m not, after all, I eat decently, get some moderate exercise, take vitamins and fish oil supplements, and I’ve never done any illegal drugs. Why wouldn’t I be healthy?"
hmmm...and you think I should chill out, right?
"Have a fruit-filled granola bar day!"
what a stunning feat of ideation!!
man oh man
that cinco is chill
brrrrrr!!
“those arguments were not only hypothetical but obviously hpothetical (sic) so until we perfect a crystal ball, we can't, by definition, compile facts about the future
it also obviously be negligent to not take such factors into account”
No crystal ball was ever necessary. There are hundreds of jurisdictions that have had these laws in our country, some of them for over a decade. They never had any of the problems you conjectured and ran your fear campaign on. Nor were any “peeping Tom” ordinances revoked. Criminal behavior is still criminal behavior punishable by law; 23-07 didn’t change any of that.
“laws, by definition, take away some liberty
it's a fact”
I highly recommend getting dictionary and checking some definitions. Laws against murder don’t take away anyone’s liberty to go out and kill someone. People can still go out and kill other people. It happens every day. The only thing the law can do is punish people for anti-social behavior after the fact, if they get caught.
“this one, for eaxample, (sic) took away a business owner liberty to set policies for use of his restrooms”
Posting falsehoods repeatedly doesn’t make them true, any more than Bush claiming “WMD” made it true.
The CRG used to have on their website a Nov. 13, 2007 Memo with the subject “Action: Bill 23-07, Non-Discrimination – Gender Identity”, which included the following information:
“The County Attorney’s Office concluded that Bill 23-07 as introduced would not require or prohibit restroom designation according to gender identity or biological gender (see memorandum on © 17). This means that an employer or other public facility provider could maintain and enforce current gender based restrictions on public facility use.”
“cinco’s mentally ill,
you're saying you're not?”
Indeed Anon, as I have explained many times before, I have been subjected to numerous psychological evaluations as required in the treatment regimen for my medical condition. They have all come back well within the normal range, and I have even offered to take more tests and post the results here on TTF if some of the CRG folks would do the same. So far I’ve had no takers.
Feel free to continue with the ad hominem attacks though, as I wouldn’t want to infringe on your “liberties,” and even amateur debaters realize these are the last refuge of someone who has realized they’ve lost the argument and can come up with no better rebuttal.
“WMD,"
not only did Saddam try to make people think he had these, he did have them in the past
and used them on his enemies both domestic and foreign”
We helped him build the facilities for those weapons, so he could keep our other enemy Iran in check. Belligerent heads of state ALWAYS inflate their military capabilities to keep their enemies at bay. Saddam had two of them right on his border he had recently been at war with, and I’m sure he knew plenty of them wanted his liver on a platter with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. Regan kept Russia at bay with “SDI.” It wasn’t real but it served its purpose. We would later go on to rack up billions upon billions in debt trying to make SDI real, but that’s a topic for another post.
The problem with “WMD” was the fact that the Bush administration fabricated “evidence” to push the country into an expensive, drawn out war. It also ignored evidence from our own CIA that the information it did have was entirely not credible.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2735031.stm
For a detailed account of the shenanigans that went on, see:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/
and from http://www.countercurrents.org/cook270611.htm
This little gem:
“Thus from 1492, the initiation of the greatest holocaust in history against the indigenous people, before even the conception of a United States existed, the myth of God given rights to the spoils of war waged on behalf of “sacred beliefs” ordained by Christ through his ministers, became a lesson learned by the Puritans, the settlers, the pioneers, and the government of the U.S. until the whole of this nation came to heal. By 1846 our government declared its right to the land of Mexico north of the Rio Grande by initiating a war to ensure the continuation of slavery in Texas, fought against Spain in 1898 to gain control of Cuba and the Philippines in the Pacific, most notably in the eradication of the Moro Muslims in a massacre, described in caustic satire by Mark Twain. American imperialism baptized as “Manifest Destiny” or “bringing God's word to the heathens” continues unabated.
(Continued quote)
“It is a corrosive mindset indelibly branded on the American psyche. It is the underlying proclamation of Obama's address to his people couched in words without meaning: “the tide of war is receding,” “the light of a secure peace can be seen in the distance,” “These long wars will come to a responsible end.” The first implies that our President knows the certainty of God's vision, yet the vision belies the reality of the past and the lessons to be learned from that past: the destruction of the evil Taliban in Afghanistan within three months only to have that conflagration become the longest war in American history; the 90 day war that did not materialize in Iraq although the declaration of its demise was broadcast world-wide from the deck of an aircraft carrier; the spread of the terrorists from nation to nation as America's killing fields leap from Afghanistan to Iraq to Pakistan to Yemen to Libya as hatred for America grows geometrically as civilians die; and, perhaps most tellingly, the on-going support by America of the genocide taking place in Israel against the Palestinian people, a massacre that has no “light of secure peace” in the distance.
Consider “These long wars will come to a responsible end.” What is the “responsible end” for a war instigated and entered into on the basis of lies to the American people, to the soldiers of the United States , and to the nations United as Colin Powell testified to a platter of fabrications shoved down the throats of unknowing delegates who gave their consent on behalf of their people? What is the “responsible end” to an irresponsible war? How does this nation give recompense to the dead, to the maimed, to the refugees and to the children whose lives have been lost to the American war machine? Will the “responsible end” declare the true reasons for the war? Will it tell the Iraqi people and all of our coalition partners that our true purpose was control of oil reserves to maintain our vaunted standard of living, that it was to secure oil for Israel, that it provided America with a means of establishing 14 more air bases to effectively surround Iran, that democracy was offered as a means of electing our puppet to replace Saddam; will we act responsibly and tell the truth?”
Anon pasted:
(long cut from my previous post)
And then…
“hmmm...and you think I should chill out, right?”
I could have readily responded to your anorexic accusation with a retort like “You are a blathering fool who knows not of that which you speak.” While mercifully terse and painfully accurate, its acerbic and belittling tone would put it in the same category as the posts of one of the Christian conservatives here who shall remain “Anonymous.” I couldn’t bring myself to stoop to that level. It’s simply not my style, either.
Besides, I know how concerned all those CRG folks are about the health of transwomen, as evidenced by their preoccupation with where we go to the gym and shower. But it would be considered a “breach of enemy etiquette” to come straight out and ask me how, at 43, I manage to maintain my “svelte-itude” and still fit into those size 6 dresses and size 5 or 7 jeans. (Not as bad as Newt’s breach with the “right – wing social engineering” line, but a faux pas none the less.)
Consider my little explanation of healthy diet habits a free public service. 2/3rds of Americans are overweight; they can use a little encouragement and advice.
Have a Magical Ponycorn Adventure Day!
http://www.ponycorns.com/
(Ponycorns: Part pony, part unicorn!)
Cynthia
"There are hundreds of jurisdictions that have had these laws in our country, some of them for over a decade. They never had any of the problems you conjectured and ran your fear campaign on."
yes, well everyone knows this law won't be effective
has anyone in MC had to invoke this law yet?
of course not
there was never any need for it
"Criminal behavior is still criminal behavior punishable by law; 23-07 didn’t change any of that."
actually, it didn't change anything
so why was it enacted?
"I highly recommend getting dictionary and checking some definitions. Laws against murder don’t take away anyone’s liberty to go out and kill someone. People can still go out and kill other people. It happens every day. The only thing the law can do is punish people for anti-social behavior after the fact, if they get caught."
but then you can't do it again
that law takes away one's liberty to commit bloody murder
"The problem with “WMD” was the fact that the Bush administration fabricated “evidence” to push the country into an expensive, drawn out war."
that's funny because other intelligence agencies worldwide agreed with Bush at the time
we actually didn't need the pretext of WMDs to invade
Saddam had invaded an ally of ours
when we came to the rescue, Saddam signed a surrender truce agreeing to certain terms
he repeatedly violated this truce and had a habit of firing on our military aircraft
he was fortunate to get away with it as long as he did
and from http://www.countercurrents.org/cook270611.htm
This little gem:
“Thus from 1492, the initiation of the greatest holocaust in history against the indigenous people, before even the conception of a United States existed, the myth of God given rights to the spoils of war waged on behalf of “sacred beliefs” ordained by Christ through his ministers, became a lesson learned by the Puritans, the settlers, the pioneers, and the government of the U.S. until the whole of this nation came to heal. By 1846 our government declared its right to the land of Mexico north of the Rio Grande by initiating a war to ensure the continuation of slavery in Texas, fought against Spain in 1898 to gain control of Cuba and the Philippines in the Pacific, most notably in the eradication of the Moro Muslims in a massacre, described in caustic satire by Mark Twain. American imperialism baptized as “Manifest Destiny” or “bringing God's word to the heathens” continues unabated.
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